joining me now is congressman emmanuel cleaver, democrat from monsieur rained chairman of the congressional black caucus and frank schaffer, a best-selling author who grew up in the evangelical movement but has since left it. his latest book is "sex, mom and god." thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> good to be with you. >> congressman, let me start with you, you are a minister. is this a new low for people to question the president's faith? >> you know, we are moving into one of the saddest eras during my adult life because the only answer to a question that is raised about somebody's faith is section 3, article -- section 6, article 3 of the constitution, which will have no religious test. we shouldn't be asking about the president's faith or frankly about the faith of mitt romney, but it is -- it is so sick now that we are in many ways trying to turn this presidential race into a bat of hip pock criticism who is the better person of faith? and most of us try to practice our faith without presumption. in other words, we have enough trouble trying to bring ourselves closer to