but you go back 20 years ago, they were sort of shunned and we all remember the great memoir by emmanuel derman talking about his experiences in the early days of being a quant trader and strategist. there has always been the concern that once you model something good, everything -- everyone else will either duplicate remodel or find a way to replicate the more profitable portions of it. and that means down the road the profitable portions become less and less. katy: that is a good point. but one of the key things that we think about the quant strategies i work with, which are your tried-and-true methods, for me it is really about measuring data and aggregating information together in a way that we can actually distill views on the market. i think that one of the challenges today is that so much information is out there. so, the way that you aggregate and measure information and use that to trade is still somewhat of an art in the sense that there is so much out there that you can use. so i do agree that some very tried-and-true, classic, complicated strategies, yes, they are the way and the se