institutions, the election commission of india, the central bureau of investigation, the enforcement directorateartment. you know, we just got to look at the all—out offensive against one of the few english language television news channels. if you want me, i will name it. they're doing a fine job, have come under a terrific offensive, all—out offensive to just kill them. and this is something fairly recent... listen, i hear your passion on this question of maintaining and fighting for the independence ofjournalism. but it appears to me that you and many others then move on and conflate that particular issue with another one, which is the modi government's determination to better regulate the internet and to impose new regulations on, for example, key social media platforms. you seem to see that as part of what you've just described as the authoritarian trend, whereas the government would say that it's simply trying to ensure that india's online culture doesn't become dangerous, full of misinformation, lies and provocations. and surely, that's a very fine motive. these intermediary... ..intermed

to be assistant secretary for immigration and customs, enforcement at the department of homeland security more commonly referred to as the directorf ice. the sheriff harris county texas, the largest sheriff's office in texas and third largest nationally. he began his law enforcement career as a a civilian employeen the houston police department where he later became a police officer and rose to the rank of sgt. and served on the elite hostage negotiation team assigned to the homicide division as an investigator. after serving 18 years with the houston police department, sheriff gonzales retired in 2009 to serve three terms on the houston city council, elected by his peers into thousand ten to serve as vice mayor pro tem helping to manage the workforce of the city of houston. sheriff of harris county and city council member, gonzales spearheaded innovative efforts to expand social services in order to reduce risk, divert crime and improve public safety. welcome, you may proceed with your opening remarks. >> chairman and distinguish members of the committee, i am honored to appear before you to discuss my nomination to lead u.s. im

nominations robert santos to be director of the census bureau within the department of commerce whole animal sheriff gonzales to be assistant secretary for immigration and customs enforcement. commonly referred to as the director for ice within the department of homeland security. soy welcome to both of you and your family members joining us today. congratulations on your nominations and i think you for your willingness to take on the critical incredibly important positions. the rear is a leading source of quality data about relations people and economy pretty the senses in the bureaus of surveys are critical for helping it communities, businesses people across our nation to ensure they had the resources and information they need in order o thrive. mr. santos, confirmed you believe the bureau as completing the 2020 senses plans for 2030 and administers the bureaus critical demographic and economic surveys and changing nation. i don't understand the importance of the bureaus it challenges that it faces and as an expert in statistical research and survey designs, was worked extensively with the bureau, and other stakeholders rely on the census bureau to produce data that is

of justice, and time and time again, we are met with concrete examples of law-enforcement enforcement director says that not only undermine our civil liberties. the aclu conducted a study with members of congress, in a criminal database, and 48 congress members matched. imagine what it's like for everyday people across this country. what we know about this technology is the darker your skin tone, the more likely you will be falsely identified. following the murder of michael brown junior, i recall wearing bandanas as a response to the teargas. it was during that time that we realized we needed to wear bandanas because of the likelihood of facial recognition technology being used against road test movements and surveilling each and every one of us involved in the uprising. 14 agencies reportedly used facial recognition technology to support criminal investigations. yes or no, was it used by the federal law-enforcement disease following the torture and murder of george floyd? >> yes. >> what other collateral consequences of protesters being identified by these technologies -- what are the collat

john ooizer, the assistant director of investigative programs at u.s. immigration and customs enforcement. and our third and tienl witness is jeremy sheridan, assistant director of the office of investigations at the u.s. secret service. the witnesses full statements will be inserted into the record. i now ask ooch witness to summarize his or her statement for five minutes. >> good morning, chairwoman, members of the subcommittee. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to represent the office of intelligence and analysis and to discuss the malicious use of crypto and other digital currencies. over the last several years, i observed a growing trend of a wide range of malicious actors seeking to use access to digital and crypto currencies to facility activities. this includes domestic and international terrorists, nationwide adversaries, transnational and other criminal organizations and cyber criminals. while then sbept and capabilities of these actors very widely, all of them using crypto and other digital currencies as an effective means to fund their operations. includ

. >> coming up today on c-span, the nominees for census bureau director and immigration and customs enforcement's assistant secretary have the confirmation hearing before the house homeland security and governmental affairs committee live at 10:15 a.m. eastern on c-span2 the senate returns for votes to confirm nominees for treasury undersecretary for domestic finance and deputy veterans affairs secretary. on c-span3 at 9:30 a.m. eastern, federal reserve chair jerome powell will testify on monetary policy and the u.s. economy. ♪ >> peter osnos has published dozens of nonfiction books in his career. he has now written a memoir about his own life called, "an especially good view." the national book review says osno has written a books on many fronts. we talked with him about his time in vietnam and the soviet union among other things. >> reporter and editor and publisher peter osnos on book notes plus, listen wherever you get your podcasts. >> president biden met with a group of the nation's governors and mayors at the white house to discuss infrastructure. >> we will talk about infrastructure. pres

republik and join us in supporting this and other common sense measures like confirming a director for the haagency enforces gun laws on te books. atf, for the first time since 2015, too many lives have been lost to gun violence in this country. at time for us to come t togethr and put an end to this senseless violence. i yelled the floor and suggest the warm. >> tonight on the communicators, the reason why ransomware has become such a problem is that it become a huge threat, not only have a criminal threat also as you mentioned, because of the implications for critical infrastructure like pipeline companies or largest meat supplier in the country, these are significant targets and they have increasingly become something cyber criminals are targeting. ransomware is a concept, it's pretty simple. defending against it has become increasingly complex. >> he oversaw the justice department national security and cyber crime investigations during that trump administration. he discusses recent ransomware attacks and other cyber threats. tonight on the communicators at 8:00 p.m. eastern on c-span2. ♪♪ >> peter has p

andrew mccabe is a cnn senior law enforcement analyst, former deputy director of the fbi and author ofow the fbi protects america in the age of terror and trump." andrew, welcome back. you know, we talk so much about russia-based attacks and cyberware hacks. for the u.s. and its allies to point at china, the significance of that and this coalition that we're seeing? >> well, that's all very signi significant, victor, and i'm glad you pointed it out. i think this announcement by the biden administration is a good opportunity to remind people that russia is not our only adversary in cyberspace and to our intelligence professionals and to our cyber professionals, it's not about politics. it's not even about so much the russians may want to impact our elections or the chinese are stealing our material. none of that really matters. they're just worried about who is active and how they're getting at our government systems and our private sector systems, so it's a very significant announcement. i think that the unified nato response, which is the first time we've ever seen this really shows u

. >> coming up today on c-span, the nominees for census bureau director and immigration and customs enforcement assistant secretary have their confirmation hearing before the house homeland security and governmental affairs committee. that's why that can 15 a.m. eastern. on c-span2 the senate returns of votes to confirm the nominees for treasury undersecretary for domestic finance, and deputy veterans affairs secretary. on c-span3 at 9:30 a.m. eastern researcher jerome powell is before the senate banking committee to testify on monetary policy and the u.s. economy. >> c-spanshop.org is c-span's online store. there's a collection c-span products. browse to see what's new. your purchase will support our nonprofit operations and your time to order the the congrl directory with contact information for members of congress and the biden administration. go to c-spanshop.org. >> senate majority leader chuck schumer join senator ron wyden and senator cory booker to announce a new bill that is passed by both chambers and signed by president biden within the federal prohibition on marijuana. this briefing

let's discuss with cnn senior law enforcement analyst and fbi deputy director andrew mccabe and authorhreat," how the fbi protects america in the age of terror and trump. andrew mccabe, nice to see you. happy friday evening. i feel like it's a bit after deja vu when we talk about these issues because some things we've known, other things we maybe thought was going on but these notes actually show that trump is badgering rosen and donohue, leave the rest to me and the gop congressman. i mean, how was this man supposed to unfold, you think? >> well, that's a great question, laura. i mean, it obviously the contemporaneous notes are an artifact, a piece of evidence of unassa unasalable quality. they have a habit of taking notes. here he is in a meeting with his boss, the attorney general and important phone call with the president of the quunited state. things are preserved and ultimately revealed to us. they really give us an insight what he was thinking, what president trump said, what they responded to those comments by the president and, you know, you have to imagine that this was -- i

enforcement. would you agree with that? directorinly there were aspects of it that were planned and coordinated. but yes. sen. klobuchar: well, there was -- i just noted that just today reporting in “the washington post” that on monday, a complaint was filed against a member of the proud boys in washington state where federal prosecutors alleged that in fact there were plans made for many different entries into the capitol. is that correct? director wray: yes. there have been a growing number of charges as we continue to build out the investigation, either individuals who are now starting to get arrested involving charges that involve more things like planning and coordination, or in some instances, individuals who were charged with more simple offenses but now we're superseding as we build out more of an understanding of what people were involved in. and there were clearly some individuals involved, which i would consider the most dangerous, most serious cases among the group, who did have plans and intentions and some level of coo

us because i want to bring in our chief correspondent dana bash also a cnn law enforcement analyst and former fbi director andrew mccabe. so dana, we're talking about concerns from the country's top military officer of an attempted coup by the president of the united states and his allies. this is one of those things you have to kind of step back and just kind of realize this is so out of the ordinary. there were clearly a lot of, you know -- a lot worse things happening behind the scenes according to this than anyone knew publicly. >> absolutely. and, you know, it is important to understand and learn this for lots of reasons. but first and foremost it's because, yes, it's history but it is recent history. and it informs what is going on right now. and that is if general milly was, you know, saying these things and screaming from the rooftops and having conversations, jamie's reporting also about this book is that nancy pelosi, the house speaker, was involved in conversations. then there's no way that the republican leadership weren't also aware of some of this even if they didn't have direct conversation

joining us a former dep tip assistant attorney general and cnn senior law enforcement analyst and former fbi director anthony mccabe. given congressman brooks said the purpose is to create political propaganda. do you think it wishful thinking he will voluntarily comply? >> it might be, it's to ask someone to come in voluntarily. you might, this sounds counterintuitive. you might get it faster asking him to come in. if you go straight to a subpoena there is a number of votes that would have to happen before you can enforce a subpoena. you have to file a lawsuit or take it to the justice department. that may slow your proceeding down and ultimately not end up getting it, when, in fact, represent lofgren said right there if you ask the members of congress to appear voluntarily, either for a short period of time for a deposition or transcribed interview and then he he says no, don't give am lot of time. slen slap him with a subpoena. i think people have a false notion how quickly subpoenas get enforced in congress. >> congressman brooks earlier said he had threats of violence january 6th. now he's claim

let's discuss with cnn senior law enforcement analyst and former fbi deputy director, andrew mccabe.ica in the age of terror and trump." andrew mccabe, nice to see you tonight. happy, friday evening. i feel like it's a bit of dÉjÀ vu when we talk about these issues because -- um -- some things, we've known. other things, we, maybe, thought was going on. but these notes, actually, show that trump is badgering rosen and donoghue. leave the rest to me and the gop congressmen? i mean, how was this plan supposed to unfold, you think? >> well, that's a great question, laura. i mean, it's, obviously, the contemporaneous notes are a -- an artifact, a piece of evidence of unassailable quality. right? these are -- especially, any, good attorney who has a habit of taking notes during important phone calls and meetings. here he is in a meeting with his boss, the attorney general, and on an important phone call with the president of the united states. he takes notes. that is a normal course of business. and those things are, of course, then preserved and, ultimately, revealed to us. so they reall

i want to bring in andrew mccabe, cnn senior law enforcement analyst and also former deputy directorrganized crime, counterterrorism and extremism and ran a terror task force focussed specifically on the northern virginia where this bible study was located. i say that with air quotes, bible study, that's not obviously what this really was. but what does this tell you about not just the threat we have seen of extremist groups but of the continued threat? >> well, brianna, it tells you it's a great view into the type of people that are drawn to these fantastic and ridiculous conspiracies but who can take that belief and turn it into a desire to actually commit violence. as i was reading the documents in this case, it reads just like many, many of the cases i was involved in during my time in the fbi in which we were investigating people who tried to conceal their activities with bogus claims of being prayer groups or religious bible study meetings but who were actually plotting individual acts of violence. no matter what philosophy or group they were inspired by or following, whether t

todd: law enforcement describe it as the largest weed bust in la county history. retired acting ice directoran joins us to discuss. wasn't this predictable? >> it is and that is another example of this open border agenda. the biden administration, when the border is in chaos, humanitarian crisis creates a vulnerable border, 50% of the people no longer online. criminal cartels trafficking narcotics along the border advice is not about to force immigration in the interior, criminals opening up shop, i met with 100 shares in arizona two weeks ago, crime is rising across the country because the border is wide open to criminal gangs and cartels. carley: to understand the gravity of what took place wednesday los angeles county announced law enforcement seized 16 tons of illegal marijuana that includes 375 marijuana plants, 131 arrests and $1.1 billion total estimated street value of this illegal weed. there is a thriving black market for illegal marijuana even though recreational marijuana is legal in the state of california because some people want to buy it illegally. the other thing that is int

director wray, the fbi continues to be the gold standard for law enforcement agencies worldwide. we count on the more than 35,000 men and women of the fbi to protect our country from violent criminals. terrorists, and foreign agents who meanest great harm. i want to thank them, and of course you as their leader for their dedication and service to the nation. and in particular for their response to the attack on the capital on january 6th, and their ongoing investigations into this insurrection attempt. the work of the fbi that will hear today as asked, is critical. it covers keen vest a gay shuns into counter-terrorism, intelligence, child exploitation and financial and health care fraud. as well as the operation of the national instant criminal background check system, this system that checks available records to ensure people purchasing firearms can legally own them. this year's budget is a request of 10.3 billion dollars, and it reflects the need to support the important missions of the fbi. for the fbi salaries, and expenses, this request is an increase of 465 million above f

also, cnn senior law enforce-let analyst and former fbi deputy director, an drew mccabe.hink it's wishful thinking that he will just voluntarily comply? >> look, it might be but that's a longstanding practice of congress to, first, ask someone -- first, ask someone to come in voluntarily. and look, anderson, you might actually -- this sounds counterintuitive, you might get it faster by, first, asking him to come in. if you go straight to a subpoena, there is a number of votes that would probably have to happen before you could enforce the subpoena. you got -- you got to file a lawsuit or take it to the justice department and they may slow your whole proceeding down and you may end up not getting it. as representative lofgren said right there, if you start, first, by asking the individuals who are members of congress to appear voluntarily. either, for a short period of time for a deposition or a transcribed interview. and then, if he says no, don't give him a lot of time. then, slap him with the subpoena. but i think people have a false notion of how quickly subpoenas get

. >> joining me now is mark claxton, retired nypd detective and director of the black law enforcementis plan. i heard what deputy attorney general lisa monaco had to say about what they're trying to do. but am i wrong in thinking that this has been done before or tried before? >> it absolutely has been done before. task forces are nothing new, especially in new york. you have a joint terrorism task force, dea drug enforcement task forces. you've even had atf gun task forces before. i think what's different about this operation is that they are really specifically targeting federal firearm licensees. they're dealing and addressing the straw buys, straw purchases of firearms, et cetera. so i think it's a more targeted enforcement strategy. it's not about placing bodies on the street, necessarily, but targeting those corridors and those areas and developing investigations within those areas, hoping to disrupt the flow of firearms from state to state. the challenge is and will continue to be the lack of a substantive firearms legislation makes it almost impossible to really maximize your

john ooizer, the assistant director of investigative programs at u.s. immigration and customs enforcement. and our third and tienl witness is jeremy sheridan, assistant director of the office of investigations at the u.s. secret service. the witnesses full statements will be inserted into the record. i now ask ooch witness to summarize his or her statement for five minutes. >> good morning, chairwoman, members of the subcommittee. thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to represent the office of intelligence and analysis and to discuss the malicious use of crypto and other digital currencies. over the last several years, i observed a growing trend of a wide range of malicious actors seeking to use access to digital and crypto currencies to facility activities. this includes domestic and international terrorists, nationwide adversaries, transnational and other criminal organizations and cyber criminals. while then sbept and capabilities of these actors very widely, all of them using crypto and other digital currencies as an effective means to fund their operations. includ

i want to talk about this, now, with cnn senior law enforcement analyst, andrew mccabe. a former-fbi deputy director. he is also the author of "the threat: how the fbi protects america in the age of terror and trump." andrew, i feel like this is dÉÀa vu, in the worst kind of way. to see white nationalists marching through the streets in america, yet again, in a very short amount of time since the last time we have seen this. and i want to ask you, you are looking right now, at the footage. hundreds of members of a white-nationalist group called the patriot front are marching and they are chanting the election was stolen. and reclaim america. now, when you see this, on july 4th weekend, andrew, in the birthplace of our country. i got to know, what goes through your mind? >> well, laura, so many things. right? i mean, just -- there is just the raw offense of watching this on july 4th. on independence day. in the cradle of democracy. it's -- it's just stunning. but we have to step back from that, and really get down into the weeds to understand how significant this is, as a sign of where we are with ex

. >>> i want to turn to former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe, a cnn senior law enforcement analyst. andrew, thank you for joining us, i don't get to see you enough as well. but now we have you this evening. as we learn all these disturbing details about trump's final days in office, does this show the threat to our democracy described in all these books, that it's still a clear and present danger? >> i think it does, i think it shows clearly the continued significance, the continued influence that trump holds over the xwiert of the republican party, right? here is a guy who you know, the first time you step into the room with him, i experienced this myself in may of 2017, he communicates to you very quickly that there is only one thing he values in the world and it is your slavish loyalty to him. i'm sure that kevin mccarthy knows that as well as i do, as well as everyone else does who has ever been around donald trump. it seems that's what he was communicating to trump today with his trip up to bedminster. >> from what i noticed, the first time i was in a room with him, he tries t

director andrew mccabe. he's a senior law enforcement analyst and the author of the book "the threat, how the fbi protects america in the age of terror and trump." also with us abbie phillip and maggie haberman, the washington correspondent for "the new york times." andrew, the new video we just saw, we saw the rioters stealing the officer's badge and his radio. what can we learn as we take a closer look at all these videos that are coming in, especially the ones that came in today. >> sure. wolf, we had this conversation many times, and each time i have told you buckle in. we will see more of these videos. we will see more gritty detail and more assaults on metropolitan police officers and capitol police officers. that is what we see in these videos. if you read the statement of the agent that supported the arrest warrant in this particular case, it goes through each of the details about how this individual ripped the badge off of his chest, took it with him when he left that day, lied about it to the agents when interviewed. took it home to buffalo, new york and buried it in his backyard. so you are really gett

i'm encouraged by the selection of the staff director, david buckley, who is a trained, experienced law enforcement work product will be the basis for judging it. and i continue to be haunted, anderson, by what i saw and heard on january 6th. it wasn't a protest. it wasn't a demonstration. it was an assault that caused death and injury. we went back to count the vote, many of my colleagues, over shattered glass and even blood. we need to get to the bottom, and i think its work product will be what distinguishes it. >> looking at infrastructure, the president saying in our cnn town hall last night that although the well has been so poisoned in his words over the past four years he still believes a bipartisan deal can happen. how confident are you of that and do you see -- what's the time frame? because senator schumer, he says it will hopefully happen for the august recess. >> anderson, i never say i am confident about anything when i'm talking about an outcome in the united states senate. but i'm more hopeful than ever. in part because the deadline yesterday and the vote even though it was fewer th

the second is, i urge you to hold a joint meeting with the sfmta board of directors to discuss traffic enforcement and i can't believe i'm saying this to you as a cab driver but there's been a lot of red light running, a lot of stop sign running and a lot of illegal use of transit lanes that only the police officer has at ability to issue tickets for. beef up your traffic enforcement division and also to have joint meeting with the sfmta to discuss pedestrian deaths, bat traffic collisions, et cetera. thank you for your time. hope that you will take these issues to heart. >> clerk: good evening, caller. you have two minutes. >> good evening, everyone. my name is denise hall and i am a board member and (inaudible). we are here tonight to thank phil scott and the san francisco police department or police officers association for both supporting and donating to our mission and our cause. we are a non-profit organization dedicated to supporting black and minority-owned businesses and entrepreneurs in san francisco and the bay area. we have had two fundraisers in the past year both of which were succes

he previously serves deputy director, associate director and senior counsel at the federal trade commission where he focuses on antitrust enforcement digitalal markets. for ten years, he practiced two multinational firms and hold law degrees from cambridge, harvard law school and nyu. paul watkins is the managing director of global partners and focuses on regulatory issues involving financial technology office ofth innovation consumer financial protection bureau headed up civil litigation division of the arizona attorney general office. earlier in his career he was in mna associate after and securities litigation associate graduated from harvard law school worked for judge. before i turn over our speakers, i'mr going to give you the code you will need in order to claim see. i will do this now and try to remember to do it again later in the presentation if you don't have a pencil handy. the code is fo tp 579. freedom of thought project 579. the floor is yours. >> thank you much, judge, for that kind introduction, it is great to join you invest panel to talk about vitally important interests. i'm reminded by your opening remarks to a

but yesterday, fbi director christopher wray shared information was provided to law enforcement multiple times and in multiple forms. ms. sanborn, that sounds like somebody was mistaken. can you corroborate director wray's statement, and if the warning was only sent in writing, why did not the fbi go further to alert law enforcement in a manner or consistent with the gravity of the threat? ms. sanborn: the information we received, took characterize what it was, it was off the internet on attributable to a specific person. that said, the content and suggestion of what may happen was concerning enough that based on our prioritizing our 56 field offices, they quickly wrote that up and within the hour had that information to the washington field office. they wrote it in a document typically for dissemination to partners. they wanted to make sure we didn't just rely on the dissemination of a product, that we also followed up with email. it went out in email to task force officers on the washington task force. numerous of those from the national capitol received that email. still, they did not

congressman and director of the u.s. drug enforcement agency. i will lay out the mechanics of today's hearing after we swear in the witnesses on the first panel, each witness will have five minutes for opening statements then rounds of questions from the senators, five minutes each, ask them to please stick close to five minutes if you can. following that we will switch to our second panel and chairman booker, depending on the votes on the floor and such may take over that responsibility with five minute opening statements and five minutes of questions from each. so i'd ask if the witnesses on the first panel would please stand to be sworn. if you will raise your right hand. do you affirm the testimony you're about to give before the committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god? let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. director labelle, please proceed. >> mr. chairman, ranking member, economies members, thank you for inviting me to testify on this important issue of eliminat

later in our program, we'll get some perspective from tom holman, retired acting director of immigration and customs enforcementu doesn't want to miss that, gentleman k. jacqui: griff, president biden spent time campaigning for a gubernatorial race. this as the white house celebrates the president's first six months in office and mark meredith is in wilmington with the latest. >> as you mentioned president biden was back on the campaign trail last night trying to help democrats keep the governor's mansion in virginia in blue hands. the president seemed thrilled to be back out speaking to the crowd and stumping for his long time friend terry mccauliffe, somebody already governor once before in virginia and the president sees it as a race to expand on his own economic agenda. >> folks, we're proposing a blue collar, blueprints to rebuild america. once in american invested-- and i need a partner like terry who is not only respected in his state, but respected by governors all across america. >> but virginia voters are focusing on more than the economy. the debate over what should be caught in the commonwealth clas

i spent a full career in law enforcement as a police chief, as a sheriff, as a public safety directoranding up to make certain that we were taking care of our citizens. so since i am the may have here in the metro area, i'm not retreating from that responsibility at this point. i just demand that our legislature realizes that we need to be engaged in the process of taking care of our people. >> how are you going to enforce that your county employees get the vaccine? >> in terms of our county employees, we have received a lot of review and advice from our legal team, our county attorneys, and we are certain we are on solid legal grounds to be able to mandate this. again, the people who live in these local communities, they depend on us to provide the services. when i start seeing my own employees dying as a result of the virus, then there's a call to service and make -- for me to make adjustments in what we're doing here. so i have to protect our employees and the citizens of our county. >> no. i understand. i just mean are there vaccine passports? are they going to have to show their

enforce the laws on the books. the alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives is one of the laws that does that. if you can weaken the agency, fewer agents, fewer employees, no directorthen the actual enforcement done by this agency is diminished. so now president biden brings us mr. chipman. there are two parts of his career that should be noted. 20 years at a.t.f., involved in some of the most serious investigations and did an incredible job. after he left the a.t.f., he went to work for a gun safety group. he's the first one to tell you, i own a gun and i respect your second-amendment rights but i don't want guns to get into the hands of the wrong people and that's how i would run the a.t.f. i think that reflects what the majority of americans think. second-amendment rights, i respect them, but when it comes to guns and i look at the violence taking place, i don't want guns getting into the -- gs getting into the hands of felons. people behind the gun lobby they don't want an agency that enforces the laws. it may be controversial, but i hope he gets this job. i'm going to vote for him. i yield the floor. the presiding officer: the clerk will call the roll. quorum