and, of course, there are numbers larger than anything that enumeratable in the universe. the number of googol, back when googol was only a number, not also a corporation, googol is a one followed by hundred zeros. that number is larger than the account of particles in the observable universe. so there's nothing in the universe that you can count that will add up to a googol. so what i did as a kid, you just have fun with numbers. and so when big numbers show up in the universe, i say, "yeah, give me more." and what worries me is that when the debt goes to $1 trillion, or possibly $1 quadrillion, the national debt, i hope it's never $1 quadrillion, but when it gets there, do people really know how big that is? i don't think so. >> they don't. >> so we're handicapped by not knowing, not being able to think creatively about how large these numbers are. >> i think you make me realize what i was experiencing there in the planetarium. when you started, you said, "we're not going to focus on what we can see, stars and planets, moons and nebulae, we're going to focus on what we c