equinus says hovers over the mind of the artist at work. we are all artists. living is art. look at that beautiful shirt you are wearing. where would we be without music and dance and ritual and all the arts? then there is the transformative path, the path of justice and compassion. >> i like that. >> that has to be the steering on our creativity. with creativity we can create gas ovens to enjoy the people we are scapegoating, can create more human missiles. human creativity can go either way. we have to steer it. that's what justice is all about. i think those four paths which are really at the heart. >> i love that point. you mention i think the four es. tell us about the four es. >> that's right. i end my book with the four es because i am trying to apply his principles to today's world. i think the four es help to name what's going on or should be going on. first, we need a new economics. have we learned anything from the collapse of wall street eight years ago. now wall street is back to the usual gains and main street continues to stumble. no one is in jail. unbelievab