agreeing with karen, having worked for eric cantor, i know how closely joe biden and eric cantor workedor one example. john mccain, which not only emphasizes bipartisanship but gets under donald trump's skin which is something that joe biden has been trying to do pretty successfully. it would be a good way for him to get out of this current morass that he's in. >> karen, before joe biden spoke to reporters today, he spoke at a fund-raiser. i want to read this exchange that he had with the audience. here's what it says. it says biden. he says ", thanks for letting me play in this contest. it's going to be pretty ugly. the audience member says "take them on," but biden says, "but here's the deal, i'm not going to participate." how long do you think biden can try to stay above the fray and not participate? >> you can't -- it's not about staying, quote, unquote, above the fray and not participating when you actually make an error either in judgement or in your comment, like when he talked about the hyde amendment, for example. he realized whether that was a political mistake or a change of