eric herschmann. eric herschmann will obviously comply with a grand jury subpoenaed to testify in that case. and tell the grand jury, whatever he told donald trump about those documents. here is eric herschmann. fulfilling his duty as a witness for the january six committee. >> the day after he had remember what he called me but he started to ask me about a big deal in georgia but i said to him are you out of your mind? said i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth from now on. orderly transition? get a great criminal defence lawyer going to need it. >> donald trump needs that more than ever -- at the same thing the new york times reporting at this hour tonight. that's more than the chances of donald trump being indicted have just skyrocketed. that is not the only breaking news in this case tonight. donald trump's lawyer said in writing tonight, just an hour ago that they're refusing to answer the question of whether donald trump to classified documents seized by the fbi at his florida h

eric herschmann, how many do you have? the more people who spoke with trump about the documents, the fact they didn't belong to, him they weren't is, right? he could get in trouble for holding on to them, particularly if they're classified. the more folks you have like, that the more witnesses, the easier it becomes to prove intent. does that matter to the doj if they were to charge a case, and we're going to go to trial, and wanted to convict someone? you bet it does, because that's how you prove intent, and intent is always an element to the government has to prove in these types of cases, stephanie. i >> want to talk january 6th before we go, claire. liz cheney revealed something interesting at an event tonight. watch this. >> in the cloakroom, on january 6th, before the attack happened, there were so many who wanted to show they were objecting that they'd set up these sign up sheets in the cloakroom, and as i was sitting there, a member came in and he signed his name on each one of the state sheets, and he said, under

eric herschmann. i will obviously comply with a subpoena and that case. i'll tell whatever you told donald trump about those documents. here is eric the thing the duty le pen -- >> the day after eastman, i don't member why he called me but he started to le pen -- it's something to deal with georgia, i said to him or you out of your mind? >> i only want to hear two words coming out of your mouth now on. i said good, john neither gonna get the best free legal advice. get a great criminal defence lawyer going to need it. >> donald trump needs that more than ever -- at the same thing the new york times reporting at this hour tonight. that's more than the chances of donald trump being indicted have just skyrocketed. that is not the only breaking news in this case tonight. donald trump's lawyer said in writing tonight, just an hour ago that they're refusing to answer the question of whether donald trump to classified documents seized by the fbi at his florida home because they're saving their answer to that question as a defence to the merits of any subsequent

this is eric herschmann, who so unvarnished and his interviews with the january six committee, tonguent, according to new york times reporting, last year, so the ex president, to be clear, that if he didn't return these documents, that he was hoarding in mar-a-lago, that he can face serious legal jeopardy. what that does is it blows up the excuse that there's no way trump knew, when he was living in some delusional fantasyland, exceed been told by one of his deputy white house counsel is that there was legal jeopardy, he had to return the documents and it was serious, and ignored it. >> but he and his folks were saying that complied with everything. >> that's a lie. that's a lie. >> straight up, it's a lie. >> it's a lie. we know from the documents, from his lawyers, he said he turned over everything when he didn't. they held on to other documents. >> it sounds like they were at least trying to obstruct justice, but they knew that they were asking for some sort of documentation, and they weren't willing to hand it over. whether he believed he had to be classified at me at a right to i

and one person, an adviser, a lawyer, eric herschmann, essentially forced the trump team's hand there in court now and trump is trying to invoke various privileges, executive privileges, attorney/client privilege to wall off what was happening in his inner circle. >> what happens next, caitlin, if the justice department wins or if trump wins? >> there are enormous implications on both sides for this. these things are never taken lightly in any administration. and with this, with donald trump the former president, if the justice department wins, it opens a major set of doors for them. it potentially means those witnesses who decline to answer questions could get called back. it would allow the justice department to get answers and information from lots of other witnesses who may not be willing to talk at this point. and that there are these witnesses that would be called back that we know could be quite important people. we've already heard them in the house select committee investigations declining to answer some questions. and then, if donald trump wins, it would protect the things t

if that evidence pans out, doj may want to subpoena or talk to eric herschmann and that could be crucial in making a case here. >> we'll see what comes out of the croom today. >>> a short time from now, president biden will head to new york to speak at the united nations general assembly that's happening tomorrow where he will address leaders on the world stage. in the person gathering is back after three years of virtual meetings because of the covid pandemic. >> senior white house correspondent phil mattingly joins us now. what do we expect? >> this is a high-profile, annual address the white house has been working on the president's remarks over the course of the last several weeks. national security adviser jake sullivan says the president will put russia, and its invasion of ukraine front and center, an effort to rebuke russia according to sullivan naked aggression over the course of the last half year or so and try to continue to rally the world against russia and that aggression that has played out. now this comes, guys, at a very interesting moment for an administration, an admin

"the new york times" reports one-time white house lawyer eric herschmann warned trump he could get in legal trouble if he did not return the documents. that is according to three people familiar with the matter. the precise date of the meeting is not clear, and he was not working for tru report from maggie haberman, trump thanked hirschmann for the discussion but was noncommittal if he would return the documents. he has testified before the january 6th committee and has been subpoenaed for the investigation into efforts to overturn the election. let's bring in kyle cheney, and former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade, good morning to you both. what is the significance of, he did warn donald trump that he should not take documents from the white house, that he might be violating the law. >> if that's the case, that's the origin of almost everything here which is that donald trump knew, had in his head the knowledge that what he was doing was potentially wrong and a foul of the law. and so the questions about his state of mind, what did he know about what was in the documents, whether he ha

i want to ask about your times where don trump was warned by eric herschmann. late last year, i think it's face legal liability if he did not return the materials that he had taken when he left office. there's still so much that we don't know about. >> we keep hearing more but it's all the piece right. it's so unvarnished and his interviews with the generous committee. tell the president, quite a new york times reporting, last year. the ex president, to be clear. that if he didn't return these documents it is hoarding in mar-a-lago that he could face a serious legal jeopardy. what that does is oppose of the excuse that there is no way trump knew where he was living in tempted no fantasyland. because he was told by one was deputy white house cancels that there was legal jeopardy that he had to return to documents, it was serious, and that he willfully ignored it. >> but he and his folks were saying they're complying with everything. >> that's a lie. >> it's a lie. we know from the documents of his lawyers, he said he turned over everything. but he didn't. he hel

he did not return government materials he had taken with him when he left office the lawyer, eric herschmannht to impress upon mr. trump the seriousness of the issue and the potential for investigations and legal exposure if he did not return the documents, particularly any classified material >> seth: of course trump knew he was committing a crime he didn't take the documents by accident he's not captain crunch. the box he took from the white house didn't say "oops, all classified!" [ laughter ] they were clearly marked all classified some of them were reportedly nuclear documents! you don't take those by accident, and if you do, you return them asap it's not like when you're hastily moving out of an apartment you shared with an ex and you realize after you moved out that you accidentally took her old college sweater and it makes you sort of wistful. [ laughter ] and you can't help but reminisce, you know, about all of the good times you had together that first time you held hands in a movie theater, or when you drove her home from a friend's party and just sat in the driveway [ laughter ]

i mean, over a year ago, former white house counsel, eric herschmann, told him to turn the stuff back in, or he's gonna be in trouble. at no time did donald trump ever say to him oh, i've declassify these documents. in january, he turns in five, 15 other boxes of documents that have classified information. at no time did he ever tell the archives that he had the classified documents. and then in may of this year, he served with a grand jury subpoena. he turns over more classified documents. and at no time, did he ever say, oh, these are really classified because i declassified them. it was not until after this search warrant that donald trump made up another lie that oh, i really did not do anything wrong. because he saw that there was a possible violation of the espionage act. i didn't do anything wrong because i declassified these, without giving details or information. the bottom line is you cannot go into a federal court of law in this country and make things up and just throw out speculation. you've got to have facts. you've gotta have evidence. and where he has not done througho

talk about the power of eric herschmann as a witness. >> we've seen it. he's credible.sly very reliable, because his information is being krob ra krob rated. and he is a powerful witness, because he served donald trump. and he had his lines he drew with january 6th, saying this is over the limit. and we know from maggie's reporting, her piece about him is that he said in respect to the current crew that are surrounding trump, he had -- he didn't take their bull, because they were trying to constrain his testimony before the grand jury and he said, you guys are off-base with this, i'm not going to be put between you and the justice department. >> right, right. >> and i thought that was very important, because it means he's corroborating with the justice department when they come calling, as he's cooperated with the january 6th committee. i think he could be very powerful. and the timing of the interaction that he has with trump is really important. it's right at the end of 2021 and back to maggie haberman, trump himself goes through the boxing, they return some of the ma

just today, we learned another trump white house lawyer, eric herschmann, quote, sought to impress upon trump the seriousness of the issue, the potential for investigations and legal exposure if he did not return the documents. that was last year. it was one warning, it was multiple warnings, for multiple lawyers, about the same thing, saying the same thing. the last one being this gentleman you see there, mr. herschmann, you may remember him from his role in the first impeachment trial, when he was trying to convince all of us that donald trump had done nothing wrong and could be trusted. he also delivered compelling testimony to the january six committee, including this story about the advice that he gave who memo author john eastman after january six. >> i only want to hear two words come out of your mouth from now on, orderly transition. i don't want to hear any other effing words come out of your mouth no matter what other than orderly transition. repeat those words to me. >> what did he say? >> eventually, he said, orderly transition. he said, good john, now i will give you the be

at least one of the people who was called to appear before the grand jury, eric herschmann, a former white house lawyer, he was called to testify on september 2nd. that testimony was postponed in part because he was arguing with the former president's team, saying, i want exact instructions from you, i want a judge's order, also, in order to provide this testimony. i'll read you just a part of an email that he sent to the trump team. it's a letter directed from president trump without a court order would not be sufficient. i don't understand your statement that the chief judge will decide this issue. what he was trying to do was push back on vague letters from the former president's legal team that just said, essentially, everything you're asked about is covered either by executive privilege or by attorney-client privilege. >> evan, stay with us. i want to continue this conversation. i want to bring in cnn intelligence reporter and cnn legal analyst. norm, let me begin with your reaction to this new reporting we're getting about the former president's secret court battles that are un

we know from the january 6th committee hearing that eric herschmann has a lot of insider informationotting around january 6th, the attempt to overturn the results of the 2020 election. >> yeah. so, i think it's delay, delay. he also seems to get that. so, the times reporting is that he says to them, you are not going to put me between yourselves and the justice department. and he obviously cooperated with the january six committee. and he has bombshell testimony that, i think, he would be a star witness -- let's put it that way -- if there is an indictment coming out of the justice department. >> okay. if we are talking about star witnesses, the big question is, i think, vice president pence. i think we all understand how farfetched at one point that seemed. by the fact that ginni thomas is now willingly testifying in front of the committee, do you think there is a chance that vice president pence cooperates with the committee? i believe that pete aguilar, one of the committee members, said today, there is no information that we have received since our hearings that is helpful to our

our team has uncovered email from eric herschmann, a lawyer on that by president trump, and told to resistestions from the grand jury. so, now, actually, his subpoena is on hold while this fight plays out about how broadly privilege can be asserted. and if trump's team loses here, that can mean that some of the white house officials who have already testified, including former white house counsel pat cipollone, they could be called back to the grand jury, to give more detailed information. but, of course, this is all being played out understand seal, in secret court proceedings. so it could be a while to see exactly how this case is decided. jessica schneider, cnn, washington. >>> democrats and republicans are ramping up their verbal attacks agency the midterm elections get closer. on friday, president biden criticized republicans for what he calls a thin series of policy goals that poi no details what they will do if they gain control of congress. meanwhile, republican governors continue to send asylum-seeking migrants from border states to democratic-controlled cities like martha's viney

this is with eric herschmann, a lawyer for the president, interest, lead saw his testimony before then to get a good f and criminal attorney. he has a baseball bat of justice behind him. there is some wrangling now about his testimony, before a ground journey, doocy that it's investigating january 6th. trump lawyers, looking to limit a testimony. lawrence for former president donald trump, engaging in a behind the scenes legal struggle to limit the scope of the federal grand jury investigation into the role he played, and seeking to overturn the 2020 election. essentially, they're trying to assert some sort of privilege here, so that this individual, mr. herschmann, cannot give testimony before that grand jury. what do you think about their chances here? >> it's really well, it's about as close as they can come, and they're in a d.c. federal court, and ultimately, they are going to be rolling up to a d.c. court of appeals. there is a legal decision, right on point, chris, from 1998, which is where bill clinton was the president, he had had conversations with an aid in the whitewater p

"new york times" reports one white house lawyer, eric herschmann warned trump there could be legal liabilities, basically trying to help him saying, in other words, just give the stuff back. now, he was also on the inside when they were plotting various ranges of efforts to either stall the january 6th certification, overthrow the election, or even stage coups. so herschmann, while not the most famous lawyer -- you've got barr, giuliani, he was one of those in the white house counsel's office who we only learned more about after the hearings, and his own testimony about pushing back. >> what they were proposing i thought was nuts. he screamed at me that i was a quitter, kept standing up and turning around and screaming at me. >> let's get into it now with former prosecutor john flannery. welcome to "the beat." >> good to be with you. >> absolutely. i mention the procedure because while it is the type of law that is the most boring, i believe it's an important substantive distinction from, duh steal documents? did you lie to the government? are you in trouble? that's all over here on substance,

we had eric herschmann, who gave some testimony, at least reportedly, that he had warned trump that he shouldn't maintain these documents and needed to turn them over. so you'll see doj and the fbi working together first to make sure that all of these documents are accounted for. that there aren't still additional classified materials that are left out in the open, that are still at risk. and then the second thing is looking at the various elements of the crime. again, we're focused on the classified, but i think stronger cases arguably exist in the context of obstruction, certainly of not turning over or destroying records that shouldn't have been done. so doj and the fbi together will be looking at all of these things and looking at the elements of the crime. and one quick note, i don't think any of this, at the end of the day, what trump is doing, has anything to do with the law. what trump is trying to do is create some story, create some reason for his supporters to sit there and believe that he's been wronged, give reason for shawn hannity at the beginning of that interview last