joining me now is jim hightower, former agricultural commissioner of texas, and erica greider, for many this is their introduction, rick perry, of course, you ran against perry in his first successful statewide race, he beat you, how did he beat you and what did you learn from it? >> actually, chris, it wasn't he who beat me, it was carl rove. in order to run against me, the chemical lobby and other special interests were offended in our state that i had promulgated some pesticide regulations to help family farmers and consumers to help farm workers, so they were out to get me. and carl rove basically sent perry out to west texas to roam around from one farmer meeting to the next. he put $3 million dollars into one of his patented negative campaigns to come after me, but the significant thing about perry is that he has become a formidable campaigner, but not anything really when you probe it all that strong. for example, he won reelection last year as governor of texas, and he's now bragging about that across the country saying see, i win sweeping victories, but what he doesn't tell you