the question of erisa and are we eroding protections and provisions in erisa. some have express ted concerns about that and are worried about eroding the essential structure of erisa. nothing, if you review this carefully, nothing could be further from the truth. these provisions in no way undermine the functions of erisa and self-insured employers and in no way allow states to undermine erisa preemption. what we do is give the department of labor and state insurance commissioners badly needed authority to stop criminal enterprises. let me just go through a couple of quick -- just a quick summary of the provisions. first of all, we have two new -- create two new positions. one in hss, department in department of justice. senior adviser, senior counsel. they will provise oversight and coordination for health care fraud wind the federal government. second, the second section, b, even though we do have in place already a health care, fraud and abuse control program known as hcfac, we retain obviously that structure but we add to that what's known as the program in

to you three gentlemen, do you also have policies that extend to erisa-type coverage plans? all three of you? >> yes, well point insures one in nine americans and the vast majority of our members are covered under erisa plans. >> mr. collins? >> yes, the majority of our membership are also in group insurance plans which are covered under erisa. >> >> the majority of our policies are individual, but we do have customers that are under erisa. >> does the same problem pertain in the erisa marketplace, as in the private insurance marketplace, ms. pollitz you indicated you think it does into there is rescission -- >> i can't hear you. >> there is rescission in the small group market and operates a little bit differently because that is a guaranteed issue market but, the similar process, if a claim is submitted, during the pre-ex period, it is largely the eligibility of the members of the group and the family members of the group, that will be reinvest gaited to see if there is any way the people who made the claim shouldn't have been on the policy in the first place. >> but, the

all of the amendments deal with a erisa particularly the seas or seizure parts of it, i hope that the other part will take a look at those and see if isn't at the least a glimmer of idea to have some basis for a needed and hopefully have something done. he expands and the erisa and amendment number 34 and then senator hatch has an amendment number 28 which is studied to determine the need for separate health-care fraud offices within the hhs and the brahmin of judges -- justice but not all being offered in this morning. i would ask you to take a look at them and see if there is some value in them, some way they can be used in some way that they can be switched from placing this emphasis on the the erisa companies that are over a number of states and more who administrative health care oriented. i think that leads us to the mccain amendment. >> as i understand it i will have staff take a look at these proposals and as i said earlier in the week with the issues raised wanted to proceed by doing title by title of this legislation so have a manageable way to proceed in and while we still

the beth majority are covered under erisa plans. >> mr. collins. >> yes sir, the majority of our membership are in group insurance plans which are covered under erisa. >> mr. him. >> the majority are individuals however we have some customers under erisa. >> does the same problem retained in the rest of the marketplace as in this private insurance marketplace, ms. pollitz you indicated that you think it does. >> there is recision-- >> i am sorry, i can't hear you. >> there is recision in the small group market. it operates a little differently because it is a guaranteed but a similar process, if they claim is submitted during the week period, it is largely the eligibility of the members of the group and the family members of the group that will be reinvestigated to see if there is any way that the people who made the claim should have been on the policy in the first place. >> but the state period is like two years, do not apply because it is the nearest the plan? >> your are much tighter in the small group market so congress has said that

erisa? >> yes, i am. >> we have a large employer in hawaii as a matter of fact. >> and do you think hawaii's exemption or waiver from erisa should continue in any healthcare reform bill just to make sure they can continue doing what they're doing. >> boy, you really put me on the spot. >> if you can answer the question. i realize it might be more complex. >> it's one of my favorite states. we have a couple of states, polynesian university and in a restructured system which i do think needs to be restructured you have to have uniformity. to the extent you don't have national uniformity, you have to have different challenges. we appeared before the hawaii prepaid health council all the time. and i would say we spend enormously more effort in one state than we spend in combinations of other states by virtue of the fact that we have to comply with unique requirements. at the same time, i know that it does provide some benefits to the citizens of the state of hawaii. the other thing that it does

with respect to erisa, i know my time is running short. we think erisa works and works as well.any complexities to this bill. we think it should be left alone. so in conclusion, in conclusion, we need to find the common ground. believe me there's a lot of common ground for the good of the american people. the american people do want change. we want change. and we want meaningful change, transparent change. we should be able to buy healthcare the same way we buy automobiles and other goods and services in this country. healthcare should be no different. if you give people the information and transparency and equality, they will do the right thing. competition is the american way. thank you. >> thank you. dr. hacker, welcome. >> thank you, chairman miller and members of the committee. >> your microphone, please >> thank you chairman miller and members of the committee. it's an honor to speak with you today. healthcare is at the epicenter of the economic insecurity in the united states. a reflection of our nation's uniquely fragmented and costly framework of health insurance. now,

. >> i mean, if you get a case that involves the question of when can a planned administrator for erisa benefits sue and under what conditions can that administrator be sued, i'm not sure if anybody is going to stay up late and turn off rachel maddo and watch this instead. >> and i would just add to complete the circle since we're talking about audio, even more bizarre than the courts power to say no over all video is the court's completely policy on when they allow audio. and one of the things that's been driving me insane is that, you know, one of the -- the only times that the public gets access to audio are in the opposite of lyle's erisa case. the court by some metric known to human kind decides which oral arguments are going to get this instant audio treatment and there's usually two or three since bush v. gore but i think it's a co-lasal mistake let's do the audio for the abortion cases and the cases that make people insane and make the justices, i think, act out and if you're going to allow only selective audio, my god, allow audio that's representative of what 90% of the court'

sthand theindividuals covered individuals covered by the erisa plans to have nobody to turn to if the benefits were denied or the claim wasn't paid or if the company suddenly ceased offering insurance. so i am a strong believer that there is an important consumer protection of role and oversight role the states will continue to play in the future. markets are often regional or local and i think having somebody in that role who understands that and not a cookie cutter approach that is nationwide makes good sense and i would say nothing five seen being discussed runs counter to that at this point. >> thank you, mr. chairman. madam secretary i have been a supporter of community health centers because in my district health centers provide access to affordable high quality care to medically underserved individuals who might otherwise go without. i know president obama is acquainted with the role they play as health care in it illinois and nationwide. indeed the president stated and i quote health center's primary care prevention are at the heart of my plan for affordable accessible health

we on ways and means will do medicare and labor will take care of erisa issues and labor issues. when we finally come together, there will be three bills different only in jurisdictional areas, then we'll meet and i think without much trouble at all be able to meld those bills into one. so i think that by the fourth of july recess, you will see a complete bill with cost -- with cost estimates and that's what we'll go with after the recess, we'll start to mark up on that ill be that's a tough schedule and this is the first weekend the staff will have time to get to bed before 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning because getting this drafted has been a big chore. listening to all the people, we've had hearings, we've had input from the providers, input from the beneficiaries group, input from the a.m.a., aarp, every group in town has been giving us their interests and we've tried to, where we can, accommodate what are reasonable interests toward getting this goal of north of 95% of every american with affordable quality health care. >> have you had input from republicans? will this be a bip

chairman, i take him at his word and in this bill we drastically change erisa to note where many of the successes and safer is that my talked about aren't going to be able to do what they did. and now like to work with you personally to make sure that is the successes of people out there providing health care and doing it for less money but more and poorly are doing for prevention and disease prevention right. let's not analyze them. >> are not -- our intention is not to do that at all. senator murray. >> mr. chairman, thank you very much and i have to say i'm one of those people who are very delighted and that we are finally at the table working to get a health care bill out. i want to commend senator kennedy as we all have, we feel his arm on our shoulder today pushing as foreign because he knows and has worked on this for so long to get this right and knows that until we sit down and start working our way through a bill and to the legislative process we are not going to get where we need to be and we are going to keep pushing under your leadership going to get there and i want to tha