one of them left eritrea, walked to either thiopia, and eventual walked to israel.s out. what you're seeing is the big divide in the world today is between a world of order and a world of disorder. you have all these states and ukraine may be one of them, where the combination of population, environment, economic stresses, that the cold war masked and we prop them up, and those props are no longer there. they are literally blowing up. >> so i would take it you think the order is continuing to win at this point? but that the fight is getting more difficult? >> yes, it is. because we basically ended a period, becky, this applies to the west, too. to be a president, a mayor, a governor, a college president on balance in most of these countries was to give things away to people. i think we're entering an era, i hope it's short. to be a president, a governor, a mayor, a college president on balance is to take things away from people. the politics of taking things away from people, especially in a country like egypt or ukraine where they missed 50 years, there's a headlin