ernest hollings, south carolina democrat. phil gramm, texas and warren rudman, new hampshire. but all three, smart, capable, politically adept and they pulled this together in cooperation with the republican president. i would submit to this table, i don't see those figures in the congress in this current situation. people of stature, political ability, policy expertise. >> i do think that's one element that is missing in this current clash. in the 1990's, you had bob dole step up during the government shutdowns and say, it's time for the grown-ups to take over. gwen: once again, you had a different membership. >> that's the point. gwen: there was no tea party movement. the question is whether those skills are relevant anymore. you still do have people -- mitch mcconnell knows how to cut a deal. gwen: john boehner used to know how to cut a deal. >> in the tea party culture, first of all, the tea party effect, they have completely changed the conversation in washington where it's top to bottom focused on spending cuts. >> huge success with that. >> and secondly, they've created