. >> at the end of this month, ernie duncan will be stepping down. say youit is fair to have enjoyed a time all chua's relationship with the obama administration and department in general. i would love to hear your thoughts on what is the most challenging part of that relationship. did they reset or rethink their role in the union's? lily: we did have a difficult relationship. i ask sometimes what our relationship is like, and i always want to begin with i think he is a sincere person and a very honest person. any punches, he never told us one thing and did another. we had some really honest disagreements. on the role of standardized testing and what that test should measure and what should be the results, whereas someone says someone should be held for a child who comes to school hungry and has a -- has a hard time learning, or the class of 39 figure i had. so i should be held accountable that every child has a cut score on a standardized test and go i must be a good teacher? and if i can't check that talks -- check that box i must be a bad teacher?

so at the end of this month, education ernie duncan will be stepping down. t's safe to say that you've enjoyed a somewhat timultuous relationship with the obama administration and the department in general. this id you learn from relationship? did they prod you in any way to sort of reassess the role of the unions? that sort of have relationship with the department and secretary duncan. i've been asked, you know, a lot of times, you know, what our relationship was like. and i always want to begin with, i think he's a very sincere honest and he's a very person. he wants to be open about how he feels. he never threw any punches, he never told us one thing and did another. we had some really honest disagreements on key things like the role of standardized testing and what that test should should be the t results, whereas someone says, held someone should be accountable. for a child that comes to school hungry and has a hard time learning, for a class of 39 graders that i've had in my -- so i should be held every child hat hits the cut score on a standardized te