so it was a major undertaking by errol morris. when bob called me i saidbob, if you don't know who errol morris is, what is your capacity for further evisceration and humiliation , i thought it was going to eat him alive and it didn't but in the end this was another opportunity for bob to explain why it was that the war had gone so badly. who was it among the best and brightest and how was it they ended up in such a debacle . then over the years i published a whole bunch of other books, i published clark clifford, secretary of defense and a book called council of the president, worked with him on his memoirs. the soviet ambassador in washington for many decades, i did his memoirs. so i had the perspective of other people, not quite the same level of intensity as i had with mcnamara but also very intense with clifford and brandon and then i did morley safer, i did mal brown, at the new york times.a book called once upon a distant war which was a book really a biography of david halberstam , neil she had and malcolm brown who were t

and the voice you heard there interviewing jacob is filmmaker errol morris. he and jacob team up to turn jacobs searing body of reporting on the family separation crisis into a new film called separated. i was lucky enough to have jacob and errol morris join me on this program to discuss what inspired them to make this film and the urgency of recording for posterity, how unprecedented trump's family separation policy was. >> it is represents something different and something new, and it is important to remember and acknowledge that fact. when you are separating a two- month-old nursing infant from his mother, that is a big, big difference. you can hear the head of the department of homeland security, the secretary, tell us that we are not doing anything unusual, we are just following the law. and why didn't they do this during the obama administration? obama deported lots and lots and lots of people. why didn't they do this during the obama administration? because they discussed it and decided it was immoral. >> discussed it and decided it was immoral. that's

showing the cruelty was also a tool, and the voice you heard, interviewing jacob's filmmaker, errol morris, they said they teamed up to create a new film called separated. i was happy to have jacob and errol here to join me, to show how unprecedented this policy was point >> this represents something different and something new and it's important to remember and acknowledge that fact, when you are separating a two month old nursing infant from his mother, that is a big difference, and you can hear the head of the department of homeland security, the secretary tell us that we are not doing anything unusual, we are just following the law. and why didn't they do this during the obama administration? obama deported lots of people, why didn't they do this? because they discussed it and decided it was immoral.>> they discussed it and decided it was immoral, that is what stopped obama, that is the dividing line. it is possible that it is dividing them. so what do we do now? joining me now is jacob sooboroff. jacob, i start with you, the book and the film are all done without knowledge that trump

. >> la separacion era el que se baso el aclamado cineasta errol morris para dirigir un d documental que analizar de ni adivinar lo que va a hacer la administracion trump, porque ya nos lo dijeron. >> ante la pregunta expresa de cnn durante su campana, trump no descarto reinstaurar una politica similar. >> cuando le dices a una familia que si vienen los vamos a separar, no vienen. >> es la peor pesadilla de q quienes padecieron su efectos, como este padre hondureno que por temor pidio no revelemos su identidad. >> es algo fatal, es aterrador. >> ¿usted cree que el volveria a poner una politica como esa en vigor? >> si lo hace y si dudarlo. >> ya lo hizo una vez y va a volver a ser lo anos. >> seis meses despues de ser reunificados, fue .deportado. >> vamos a muy duro saber que estaba separado de de mi nina pequena, por ser reunificados, fue deportado. >> pasaron tres anos sin verse hasta que pudo volver con un programa de la administracion biden. >> biden. >> organizaciones preven que este desaparezca con el cambio de gobierno. >> mas de 1.300 ninos aun no son reunificados. >> todos

in the case of family separation, as jonathan white told errol morris in the film, separation was the purpose, prosecution was the tool to effectuate that separation, that was the goal. it wasn't a crime committed that necessitated a separation like a criminal act or what john kelly had said the reason to separate people in the first place. i loved your quote in the "new york times" about having a blueprint. together at the conventions, we saw the blueprint. signs that said mass deportation now. the piece of reporting from julia ainsley about new i.c.e. centers around big cities. don't think about them, they exist. there's one outside of los angeles, two hours drive. one of the only times i met a separated parent inside i.c.e. detention. i saw grown men curled up in fetal position in solitary confinement. inspector general reports cited nooses found inside those facilities. the idea on a broad scale, if this reporting bears out to be true, they want to use those facilities for families as well and bring back family detention, which was done away with under the current administration.

project and jacob silver from nbc news and one of the executive producers of separated, a film by errol morris. the film of course is based on jacob's book by the same name and it is indispensable in this moment. becky, there is an astounding amount of fear and trepidation and concern about the people trump has named in the last 24 hours and the plans, first of all, the definition of who is going to get deported first seems like a real moving target, everyone appears to be a criminal, how are you looking at this situation? >> we are anticipating chaos and i think chaos is what people thought they were voting against, trump ran on a policy saying there's chaos at the border which is actually not true, encounters at the border have been down under biden, now he's saying they have 60,000, 77 -- 70,000 beds, they are going to use that to create mass deportation camps to deport millions of people, what he is talking about is chaos on a level that we can't even imagine and i think that is what we are facing.>> jacob, you listen to tom homan, you know this individual, and when he has asked about fami

in the case of family separation as jonathan white, the career official told errol morris in the film, separation was the purpose, prosecution was the tool to make that separation happen. separation was the goal all along. it wasn't a crime committed that necessitated a separation like a criminal act, basically what john kelly said would be the reason they'd separate people in the first place. i loved your quote in the new york times about having a blue print. you and i together at the convention saw the blue print. it was a sign that said mass deportation now. the the piece from julia ainsley about i.c.e. detention centers in big cities, but they already exist. i've been inside. just outside los angeles, it was one of the only times i met a separated parent inside i.c.e. immigration detention. that's a facility where i saw grown men curled up in the fetal position in solitary confinementment it's a place where inspector general reports cited nooses being found inside those facilities. and the idea that on a broad scale, if this reporting bears out to be true, that they want to use th

to tell the stories what this meant the first time around and why i'm so grateful to work with errol morrisw. >> landmark theater. get your tickets. >> everyone has to come. in a way he can only can. he has done this of others. even steve bannon. he is turning this lens on this policy i think none of us will -- i won't forget seeing it with my own eyes. i think it's a road map not only to what they might do but how people might push back on this policy thank you galvanized everybody across the world in opposition to what was the cruelty was the point as adam said. >> one of the things in the minute we have left, you're a professional here. the story telling. you have all of these officials are a part of it and things are used to explain to people what family separation is. i feel is a bit of a lesson learned for story telling in general. that that, i assume was apparently decision by you. >> they exonerated falsely accused of murder of a dallas police officer. there is no footage inside the detention centers that doesn't exist. in the movie i went into the detention centers with my notebook