erskine bowles. mark bertolini. it's a growing trend in business: do more with less with less energy. hp is helping ups do just that. soon, the world's most intelligent servers, designed by hp, will give ups over twice the performance, using forty percent less energy. multiply that across over a thousand locations, and they'll provide the same benefit to the environment as over 60,000 trees. that's a trend we can all get behind. >>> welcome back, everybody. as we enter this 14th day of the government shutdown. you can see that the futures are under a little bit of pressure. no agreement in sight yet. and as a result, the dow futures down by about 94 points. s&p off by 10 1/2. up next, alabama republican congressman mo brooks on the ongoing debt ceiling battle on why he's holding out against a higher debt ceiling. >>> and at the top of the hour, erskine bowles will join us and mark bertolini with his perspective on what's going on in washington. on december 17, 1903, the wright brothers became the fir

of the president's bipartisan debt commission and co-founder of the campaign to fix the debt, erskine bowlesr this morning senator mitch mcconnell will present, a bipartisan plan to his fellow republicans that could end the shutdown and extend the nation's borrowing limit for a couple of months. the deal would keep the government funded until january 15th, the same day a new deeper round of sequestration kicks in. it would raise the debt limit through february 7th. the senate covet on the bill as soon as tomorrow. >> erskine, it does look like we're going kick the can down the road for a couple more months. this is continuing to govern by crisis. >> let's look on the good side of it. we got a chance to stop the madness. we're not going to default. we're going to open up the government. and we're going to set up this hopefully the last process at least it's the last one i'm going to buy into where we have a chance with paul ryan and patty murray to actually get some kind of a deal done. you know, whether we can get as far as i want to get or as far as you want to get, who knows. but we have a

now is erskine bowles, cofounder of the campaign to fix the debt. chairman on fiscal responsibility and reform. >> which half is he? >> he's the bowles. >> i got it. erskine, you must be ready to rip your hair out over what you see happening in washington? >> becky, i don't have much hair anymore. what i have is falling out every second. >> what happened? two years ago when looking at things and proposing things and trying to get people to pay attention to what's happening with deficits, did you imagine a situation like? >> no. i hoped common sense and real analysis of data would lead to smart decisions. you know, in hindsight, you could see this coming from a mile. since we came out with the report, we've done the easy stuff. we raised taxes on people making more than $400,000 a year. politically that's not too stuff. they forgot to tell you what they were going to cut. they don't agree today. they've done stupid stuff. you don't get much stupider than a sequester. we've avoided stepping up doing the tough stuff, focussing on reforming titlement pro

erskine bowles and alan simpleson are launching a new ad tomorrow to tout their solution of fixing theying out loud, erskine, who's not fed up with what's going on in washington? >> these politicians are playing games. >> ignoring all the long-term problems we face. >> al, it's going to take some real political courage for folks to start working together. >> joining me now is republican congressman reid ribble. sir, it's great to have you here. they're talking about more people joining together and working together. we saw congressman peter king on "morning joe" today also saying that this cannot go on. basically giving the same message about trying to work together and breaking through some of the rhetoric. take a listen. >> we, as republicans, have to anticipate there's going to be another one of these in six weeks or eight weeks or three months, whatever it is. we just can't have republicans, national republicans credit sieg -- criticizing the system or saying this was the wrong decision to make. we have to anticipate that ted cruz is going to try to do this again. ted cruz and 30 o

. >> you know, amanda, alan simpson and erskine bowles have a new tv ad. take a look at this. >> for crying out loud, who isn't fed up with what's going on in washington? >> these politicians are playing games. they're jerking our country around from crisis to crisis. it's going to take some real political courage for folks to start working together and it's going to take a push from all of you out there. >> so some real frank language from both of them. as you saw there, amanda, are people angry? at the end of the day if they are that angry, are they calling their representatives? >> yes. i think many people are much angrier than erskine bowles and alan simpson because they're sitting at home not getting paid while their bills are piling up and they do have to pay them. so, again, i think that right now congress, especially republicans are feeling pressure. polls show that the public is getting really upset. you're having people coming to washington on both sides. you're having the tea party here taking down barricades at the monument and throwing them in

look, we had erskine bowles. i don't know what kind of commission they'll put together. but -- >> it was a super committee last time. the super duper this time. >> they spent nine months on it. these guys are talking about spending six weeks on something. and the president said he would stand by it. before he even saw it, he was disavowing it. remember senator obama said in 2006 it's a lack of leadership to have to deal with a debt ceiling. it was right about president bush when he said it, and it's true right now about him. it's a complete lack of leadership, integrity, and character in washington, d.c., right now. you can buy any of these guys off if you just give them a little pork. >> but you're never going to talk about entitlements if you don't fix the system because that's political suicide to talk about cutting grandma's social security check. and then you talk about quitemenquit quitemequit entitlements, they talk about taxes. so it's never going to get done. >> it would be awesome if you could have a small train wreck today to prevent a much larger train wreck

president bill clinton when we had run chronic deficits since 1968 and president clinton asked erskine bowles, then chief of staff to work with republican senate and a republican house, a republican congress, to see if we couldn't come up with a budget plan that included revenues, included spending to actually balance the budget. and as we all know the story, famously, they worked and a democratic president working with republican house and senate with the help of erskine bowles and a woman named sylvia matthews, who was ear skin's deputy chief of staff, later deputy o.m.b. director, they reached across the aisle and worked it out. their deficit reduction plan was a 50-50 deal. 50% on the revenue side, and 50% on the spending side. and they grew the heck out of the economy. and as a result we had four balanced budgets in a row. i think 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001. harry truman used to say the only thing that's new in the world is the history we forgot and never learned. i think as we try to figure out what to do with today's deficits, and remain -- get on on an even more fiscally responsible tr

. >> you watch those commercials, erskine bowles and others sitting next to each other, they say thisook good. do you think the president could possibly do something big this time? >> the thing about obama is -- i've asked this question of a lot of people around him, who worked with him on these issues, what does this animate him? is this something he seems concerned about, he wants to do something about? the answer i always get is i don't know. if you don't know that means he's not animated by it. this isn't his driving force of his presidency. i think it's possible but he doesn't seem to be willing - willing -- he's never made it a priority so far. that doesn't give us a lot of hope for the future. >>> have 10 seconds for you, jonah. >> he always wanted to be the liberal ronald reagan, a transformative guy. that doesn't mean cutting entitlements. >> that was pretty good. >> none. >> we'll come back on the other side of the break. keep it here. no matter how busy your morning you can always do something better for yourself. and better is so easy with benefiber. fiber that's taste-fre

he thought you know, he would -- as he looked -- he once said to erskine bowles, that we'll do whatevere can and you can't do that. you think there are things you should not do. and once i realized, we did whatever we could and we did business on the side. and you're laughing, but really, we reached an accommodation. >> dick morris, your reaction? >> quite a comment from a guy who once said, i did it because i could. i think the basic point here is the shutdown is stupid. because the public doesn't want it to shut down. it is like if i tell you, do teachers deserve more money? you will say yeah. should they strike and close the school to get more money? no, it is more important to have our kids get an education. on the other hand, when the debt limit comes up, it says you should not raise your credit card limit until you pay your debts. by the way, christine was wrong, 70% of the revenue is from tax borrowing, not revenue -- >> what bill clinton said is once he realized it was all a bit of a game, he played you at the same game and you ended up doing your compromise deal together, mano

i will quote erskine bowles here who regularly says we have made all of the easy choices. we have made all of the stupid choices and now it is time for this country to start making some of the real choices. we hear a lot of the interest here about just how important that is. i would be glad to turn questions over to the secretary, to any of our speakers today. yes? >> you talked often about sequestration, ask to the head, suicide. it is deal actually submits the cuts under sequestration, putting the defense department for the foreseeable future. -- if thishe senate deal is a failure of leadership as you have referred to it? >> the fundable -- the fundamental challenge was to do whatever was necessary to and the shutdown of the government and extend the debt limit. this is a double whammy. 17 years ago we were just dealing with the cr. in this situation we had both the debt limit coming due as well as the funding for the government. so the first thing that had to be done was to do whatever was necessary to try to end the shutdown and extend the debt limit. i understand that

i think i'll quote erskine bowles here who says we have made all the easy choice, we have aid all the stupid choices, now it's time for this country to make some of the real choices. we hear how important that is. i would be glad to turn questions over to the secretary and any of our speakers today. yes. >> you talk often about sequestration. sequestration remedies in this deal is a failure of leadership? >> the fundamental challenge that's faced was to do whatever is necessary to end the shutdown in the government and to extend the debt limit. this is a double whammy, 17 years ago we were just dealing with the c.r. in this situation we had both the debt limit coming due as well as the funding for the government. so the first thing that had to be done was to do whatever is necessary to try to end the shutdown and, tend the debt limit. i understand that fight could have been done on sequester, a number of other issues, but having been in that institution and understanding the kind of politics you have to engage in in order to get things done, i think they made a choice. now, understand

as a country and the economic collapse that could occur, peter orzack that you had talked to, erskine bowles or of course paul ryan, they will tell you the same thing that. our country is headed toward a collapse like greece. >> can you see a deal being done that does not in some way defund obama care from your standpoint? is that something you would approve? >> well, i think to be very clear with you, we have made three proposals to the democrats in the senate. and the last one said, hey, what about this subsidy? we don't believe it members of congress and the white house should have a subsidy. we also said how about those 1100 corporations who are able to get a delay? why shouldn't individuals have the same delay? >> but you're still talking about amending or changing the affordable care act. >> you use the word defunding. and that's really not part of what we proposed. in the last bill that we sent over, it was the entire shutdown would be completed if only the democrats would be willing to agree that we should not be entitled to the subsidy that is members of congress an the members of t

if you didn't hear it, today you missed a virtuoso performance from erskine bowles of simpson/bowlesame. bowles was real calm when discussing the government shutdown. basically waxing philosophical like the rest of us this political, kabuki. i pondered how resigned he was about it. pretty much like the rest of us, right? this shutdown has become business as usual. even as two million workers are faced with all kinds of sacrifice and the ripple effect will hurt the economy, without the insurance money flowing in to make it up. but then he was asked about the debt ceiling, about what would happen if it weren't raised. it was kind of like a fear moment there. it was palpable. he said it would be catastrophic. he said the country just can't afford to have that happen. all right. now, let's not forget that this is an artificial circumstance. as pin co's bill gross made clear when my pal brian sullivan interviewed him, the u.s. government has plenty of coverage from taxes to pay all the interest in the debt. much more, it's like nine times covered. the debt court of appealing is artifice.

if you talk to peter orzak,ers k -- erskine bowles, paul ryan, they're all saying the same thing. >> how can the republican party continue on the trajectory that it is on? you have unprecedentedly low numbers across the country for the work that's been done right now. it seems like everyone has stockholm syndrome to the tea party members and i know that when you got to washington, d.c., you thought you were going to be able to do something original and break some of the stalemates of what the tea party was trying to do, but it seems as if everybody has become a hostage of them within your own party. why is that? >> washington is a mess. i don't question that whatsoever. we have to talk to each other, we have to sit down. i've been a businessman for 40 years. i knew when to make adjustments. i knew when to sit down with people. we have to do that. we tried valiantly. we tried 17 different times we went to the house and the senate with different appropriations and different proposals. we didn't meet with much favor. so i think it takes two parties at the table. at a late hour they star

it's the brainchild to have peter peterson, who uses the comedy duo of alan simpson and erskine bowles, but instead of sitting on a balcony, they try to kill social security. today, fix the debt held a q&a on twitter, and they got trolled epically with questions like, is it true billionaires have money vaults. do uh ever get the urge to drink from a chalice. or this. why don't your bios disclose your corporate ties and conflicts of interest, with a helpful link to a page disclosing all the conflicts of interest. susie kim did a little research and concluded the entire q&a was 100% trolling, making it the most disastrous online interaction since the ill-fated hashtag, ask anthony weiner anything. and a real reason for sports announcers to flip out. this is cam zinc. he's competing in the red bull rampage mountain bike competition. if you're watching this and your nerves are already frayed, wait until you see the record-setting backflip. >> lots of speed for cam zinc. >> a little double drop. >> cam zinc, up sidedown! >> he did it! he landed the flip! cam zinc just landed the biggest ste

yesterday, erskine bowles scared a lot of us out of our wits when he said nothing is done about the debt, it could be catastrophic for the country. we should be concerned it's not business as usual. however, warren buffett said this morning right here on "squawk box" that it won't be the end of the world and we can go beyond the 17th without problems, we just can't go for a whole year. i think he was being a little hyperbolic about a year. the deadline is artifice and there's plenty of money kicking around to allow the government to pay the interest on the debt and any bonds that come due. he made a lot of us feel a heck of a lot better. and given that he's a modern day jpmorgan, it doesn't seem like our confidence is misplaced, maybe buffett knows more than anyone. buffett's comments were welcome because they explained how we can have this continuing spectacular rally in bonds, treasuries, as opposed to a selloff like you'd expect as we careen toward the so-called drop dead date. shouldn't bonds be getting crushed here as foreigners sell and people are retreating to something less risky

obama for four years or to erskine bowles, or paul ryan, they will all tell you the same thing. until we get our fiscal house in order and really redirect the trajectory of our spending, we will end up collapsing like greece. that's what we need to be about. that's what we've got to focus on. >> let's talk about that. president obama today said he is ready to move on to some real issues. let's play some of that sound. >> passing a budget, immigration reform, farm bill. those a three specific things that would make a huge difference in our economy right now. >> let's talk about passing a budget. house and senate democrats and republicans are going to meet to discuss the nation's finances. president obama has said he wants a big deal to reduce the deficit and start chipping away at the national debt. he wants, he says he's willing to include trimming social safety net programs or entitlements but the republicans need to be willing to raise some taxes. he says everybody needs to be in this together. are you up for a deal like that? >> you know, i wrote a letter -- i co-chair a bipa

ers -- erskine bowles was talking does everyone know how catastrophic it was, the debt ceiling?ial security. how do you write social security checks if there's no debt ceiling? >> that will wake people up. >> that's a big wake-up call. >> we're not there yet. looking at all of the different news services that tracks these things. maybe they're having a conversation, probably not, maybe they will. john mccain may swoop in or maybe he won't or somebody else will. that's the news cycle we're dealing with. >> what happens if boehner says let's just have a vote. >> on a clean cr? >> yeah. then it's over. but boehner has to stand up to his party. but they'll say, new york it's not the republicans. it's not. it's part of the republicans. >> there have been 12 republican members of the house calling for a clean cr vote. the question in the "post," is that the beginning of a trend? how many do you need to get it to a vote in that's the tough question. is it beginning to thaw? >> meanwhile we're going to be dealing with the debt ceiling. >> you're thinking like a business person. >> well,

yesterday on "squawk," erskine bowles used very catastrophic terms.hink there are a lot of people who may be overexaggerating what happened here. if warren buffett says it's not going to do us in, am i going to tell you warren buffett doesn't know what he's talking about? >> they may be talking about different things. buffett may be talking about the equity markets. i got to understand context. one second bir, by the year andn he said a year. clearly if a year goes by, we're going to have some real issues. >> a second is a -- >> so is do us in. i think erskine bowls is coming from a different perspective. >> i think you're right. every day you say this is lunacy we're not down big. and then you listen to warren buffett and he says this is not the end of the world, it won't do us in. i don't want to be complacent. if we're where we are october 17th and we're up big the next day, maybe that's lunacy. but the idea that we're going to have the october -- well, let's just say i don't like to use a particular word associated with october -- big decline, tha

erskine bowles, by the way, does favor a lot more tax increases than we've seen so far and that's the point that he's making. >> joe. >> harwood, so you were right about this. we did get a deal. i always thought there would be a deal. andrew, i guess, is going to be in cincinnati at a bengals game. >> i'm going to cincinnati. >> remind us, andrew, of the terms of that bet because we're going to make it happen. >> so the terms of the bet was i would go to cincinnati to a game with you because i lost. i did not believe that this morning we would have a deal. >> you wrote that column and -- >> and i was wrong, joe. i know you like -- you would remind me. i was wrong. >> you were exactly right on -- i should be your agent. but it's true, some men like to watch the world burn and you were hoping everything would hit the fan. but do you remember one thing you said that was very smart, andrew? that was, well, if we really are going to get a deal and the markets know waer going to get a deal, what if the market doesn't sell off and no one gets a chance to get in? now, look what happens. we've

there was the president's fiscal commission led by alan simpson and erskine bowles in 120u. congress ignored it. the 2011 grand bargain talks on deficit reduction between the president and speaker boehner failed. and a bipartisan group of people tried to find cuts that same year but could not strike a deal. >> how do you ensure you're more successful than the super committee's goals. >> they were much broader, much larger. our job is to put forward a spending pass and budget pass for this congress in the next year or two or further if we can. >> the president's second suggestion -- >> we should finish the job of fixing our broken immigration system. >> house leaders say they want to take a piecemeal approach, but the pieces appear to be stalled. marko rubio things the shutdown has made it hard. the president named one other big piece of legislation that's in limbo, the farm bill which sets agriculture trat responsibility every five years. the house and senate has passed their own version but the house bill cuts $40 billion worth of food stamp funding, which has created anoth

much the president himself instructed erskine bowles and alan simpson to get together. people across the country thought were strong, good ideas. it just went away. it failed by one vote and we never heard much more about it. where is the, sort of the stronger sense of common sense in congress today? >> well, you're right. the bowles-simpson proposal the president did not embrace it. which tells you the president has to be involved in these discussions. it is not enough to just have the house and just have the senate. now the president today said he is going to invite members of congress or the entire congress to the white house. i have specific questions for the president and they have to do with raising the debt ceiling. you don't get a new credit card without first addressing the problem of spending. the president has to discuss that before he is allowed to raise the debt ceiling. the amount that he is asking for, martha, is over a million dollars every minute, from now until after the 2014 elections. people all across the country know this is the time to actually ta

i think i will quote erskine bowles, who regularly says, "we've made all of the easy choices. we've made all of the stupid choices. now it is time for this country to start making some of the real choices. choices." i would be glad to turn questions over to the secretary and any of our speakers. >> mr. panetta, you talked often about sequestration. today's deal actually cements the cuts in sequestration. does that mean it is a bad deal? do you think the senate and --inistration [indiscernible] >> the fundamental challenge that faced them was to do whatever was necessary to end the shutdown of the government and to extend the debt limit. this was a double whammy. 17 years ago, we were just dealing with a cr. in this situation, we had both the debt limit coming due as well as the funding for the government. to the first thing that had be done was to do whatever was necessary to try to end the shutdown and extend the debt limit. know, that a you fight could have been done on sequester. it could have been done on a number of issues. having been in that institution and understandin

in the words of my friend, erskine bowles, where we are today is the most easily predictable problem you would have ever seen. all you got to do is looking at the path of the numbers. it's true, our deficits are down a little bit but we raised $70 billion in taxes last year and the economy is growing. it just shows what potential there is if we would put the economy on a steam where we had confidence, you know, we could have had $500 billion, $600 billion in revenue to the federal government, but we won't do that. today we find ourselves in worse condition than we did in 2011. and in 2011 we were told we can't do big things. you have to wait. so we had a debt limit increase. so tell me how we've gotten better since then. we have an unfunded liabilities growing faster every year. our true debt to g.d.p. ratio is over 100% counting all debt, internal and external. we've not done it. hundreds of thousands of federal workers right now are furloughed because congress -- not republicans, congress -- has failed to do its job, surface hast failed to compromise, has failed to reach a meaningf

i think bpuble "erskine bowles to regularly says that we have made all the easy choices. we have made all the stupid choices, and now is time for this country to start mancing some of the real choices. we hear a lot of interest about just how important that is. i would be glad to turn questions over to a secretary and any of our speancers today. >> you have talked often about sequestration as a sign of these things. tolady's deal actually cements the cuts including for the foreseeable future. does that mean that it is a bad deal? >> the fundamental challenge was to do whatever was necessabou to end the shutout and government and extend the debt limit. this is a double epolby several years ago we were just dealing with the cr. in the situation we have both that limit coming do as well as the funding for the government. the first thing that had to be done was to do whatever is necessary to try to end the shutdown and mixed in the dnd mt limit. i understand that a fcansmig cod have been done on sequester, number of other issargs having been in that institution and understand

i think i will quote erskine bowles, who regularly says, "we've made all of the easy choices. we've made all of the stupid choices. now it is time for this country to start making some of the real choices." i would be glad to turn questions over to the secretary and any of our speakers. >> mr. panetta, you talked often about sequestration. today's deal actually cements the cuts in sequestration. for the foreseeable future. does that mean it is a bad deal? do you think the senate and administration -- [indiscernible] >> the fundamental challenge that faced them was to do whatever was necessary to end the shutdown of the government and to extend the debt limit. this was a double whammy. 17 years ago, we were just dealing with a cr. in this situation, we had both the debt limit coming due as well as the funding for the government. so, the first thing that had to be done was to do whatever was necessary to try to end the shutdown and extend the debt limit. i understand that, you know, a fight could have been done on sequester. it could have been done on a number of issues. having

mortgage bankers' association and the united states conference of mayors, and he is supported by erskine bowles, cochair of the national commission on fiscal responsibility and reform, and the former bank of america chairman and c.e.o., hugh mccall. in fact, i'd like to ask unanimous consent that these letters from the realtors, home builders and mr. mccall, which i have copies of here, be entered into the record. the presiding officer: without objection mrs. hagan: congressman watt's strong record of working with industry leaders, democrats and republicans proves that he can deliver results for middle-class families across the country and in north carolina. we need congressman watt at the federal housing finance agency. mrs. hagan: i know he will work successfully with congress to strengthen the backbone of our current housing finance system and i urge my colleagues to join me in supporting his nomination later today. mr. president, i yield the flo floor. a senator: mr. president? the presiding officer: the senator from pennsylvania. mr. toomey: mr. president, parliamentary inquiry. i believe

. >>> here's erskine bowls earlier as well. >> the sequester was stupid, across the board cut in discretionarytitutes in mandatory programs where there's broad agreement in place of the sequester cuts than will help us in the long term and give us funds we need to invest in research, education, and infrastructure and also make sure that our military has real readiness. >> reporter: the question remains, guys, whether congressional leaders in both parties can land this plane by thursday in order to give ace chance to get to long-term negotiations in which both sides clearly have an interest in a successful result. haven't been able to make it happen so far. >> as optimistic as corker sounded in the sound bite, the house is working not on the same page but not on the same book. >> reporter: that's true. and they drove this strategy, along with ted cruz, that has crashed and burned in a spectacular fashion. but i talked to republican house member over the weekend who said the house is waiting, sitting back, waiting to see what senate does, if the senate sends something without much time, we may h

on monday, former citigroup chairman dick parsons, aetna ceo and erskine bowles, deficit destroyer. > on wednesday, three hours with warren buffett. you can't afford to miss "squawk box" next week starting at 6:00 a.m. eastern. ey always will. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one on one. to help you retire your way... with confidence. that's what ameriprise financial does. that's what they can do with you. ameriprise financial. more within reach. ttrust your instinctsdo to make the call. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may

fund the government and raise the debt ceiling so the idea -- the silver lining, we spoked with erskine bowles yesterday and a grand bargain that comes up -- >> the president with harwood said i'm willing to talk about these things but not until you do the other stuff and -- in then they've given up their leverage. >> right, in the past, many, many times debt ceiling increases have been accompanied by different budget agreements or negotiations, so we'll see whether they -- >> i think the whole idea of obama care and the affordable health care ago, they won't make any leverage with that. >> but changing a little bit. saying, way, we tried that, we don't like it. figure out a day -- they kept saying give people the same opportunity that their boss got when the corporate mandate was put off for a year. we thought it would be a good idea to delay -- let the normal, you know, rank and file delay it for a year but if that's not something you want to do let's talk about some of the other issues. >> although the president did bring up the idea that if they want to finish what they started in terms of

. >> hey, lee, we had erskine bowles on yesterday.ill looking for a grand plan, the grand compromise. he thinks if we cut about $2 trillion in spending and are able to raise revenue, raise taxes of about $400 million to $500 million, he thinks that would take care of a lot of the long-term. >> i'm not saying it's hopeless. i'm saying we have to come together. my theme -- and i'm an economist, i think i have a certain amount of common sense. the vast bulk of the revenues the government collects, they collect for wealthy people as it should be. i'm a great believer in the income tax structure trying to give back as much as i can to society. but we have to sit down as a nation, our leaders have to agree upon what is the appropriate tax rate on wealthy people? once you agree upon that number, that defines the revenue yield to the government. then we have to size government to that revenue yield. now, mr. buffett, which we all have enormous respect for, i think, he would say and has said that if you make over $1 million a year, 35%. and ma

you to talk to peter orszag, the budget writer for president obama or erskine bowles, who was the samei think we have to get ahold of that. i know this crisis is coming up. i heard today that mr. obama does not want to extend beyond six weeks. i'm really not as concerned about the timetable as i am concerned about constructively what's being done to address the excessive spending. if you're taking $2.5 trillion and spending $3.5 trillion, you've got a problem. and this country has a problem. the reason why we have to increase the debt ceiling is because we have out of control spending. that's the issue right now. and we have to do that. >> i get that. but the question still stands, unless you get a commitment from the white house on cutting spending, are you willing to allow the country to go by the october 17th deadline without raising the debt ceiling? >> i think that would be really in poor judgment. that's uncharted waters. i don't -- i would hate to see that happen. moody's has come out and said yes, that's achievable. you could do that. you could make your interest payments. you