erwin, dr. peter hotez, who's been working the vaccine world for a long time, had seen saying the last couple years, he's not surprised by the fact that there's an anti-vaccine movement in the vaccine. he's been subject to a four decades, he was really surprised at the intersection of vaccine hesitancy and politics. you tweeted the same thing on monday, january 1st. you're focused on pet controlling the pandemic and keeping everybody healthy, but i'm deeply concerned about the one six insurrection what it says about where our country is going. you're worried about these two things being threats to the way we live. >> yes, i am. i don't think we've ever seen anything like this. first of all, we're seeing simultaneously, extraordinary pair of crises. one of which is the pandemic. the other one, is very threatening existentially to america's democracy, and that is what happened on january 6th and what was behind. it here we are, trying to balance some sense of what to do with two huge crises. the o

erwin redlener, founding director of columbia university's national center for disaster preparedness. dr. redlener, the biden administration says these mandates are necessary because we are in a public health crisis, we need more people to get vaccinated, and these mandates will help us get to the vaccination numbers that we need to be at to move past this pandemic. it's a big setback for what the biden administration was hoping to achieve. >> yeah, katy, it's actually a big step back for our ability to get control of this pandemic, which is raging. yes, we may see a settling down in the northeast of the omicron variant. but that doesn't mean that we're not going to see big flare-ups in other parts of the country which i fully expect. even if we didn't, we still have delta running around our midst. so this inability of the president to do something entirely rational to control the pandemic spread, being struck down now by the supreme court, is really, really unfortunate. it's a big blow for the american public and for -- look, we have hospitals, 20% of american hospitals are now overr

erwin redlener, director of the center are disaster preparedness and director of pediatrics. if so, what's next? >> i hope so, stephanie. although so many times the modelers and predictors have not been that accurate. we're looking at uk, good signs it may be going away. if we're worryworts, thinking is there something to follow but let's assume we have good luck and omicron goes away. >> if there is a fourth shot specifically for omicron but the wave is over, is it worth taking it? >> let me break this down, really important question. starts with when we first noticed omicron appearing out of south africa, we realized quickly the two shots most of the us considered full vaccination would not work effectively against omicron, so we moved to a third shot, a booster shot philosophy, that proved to be pretty effective against omicron, still not good enough. and omicron is now raging out of control, besides the hospitalization increases and cases you mentioned, it's increasing trend for more fatalities. there's two other strategies, vaccine strategies, one is and all the manufact

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erwin redlener, the founding director of the national center for disaster preparedness at columbia universityws public health analyst. doctor, thank you. and i apologize for interrupt, when i did. but right now, we're seeing a split, right? and let's look at that. it's also a split in the pandemic. many families looking to move past covid, while thousands of families are seeing their loved ones hospitalized. even some dying from covid. how do we get past these two realities? >> and jose, the realities are actually what characterize the united states of america. and in some ways, always have. and in this particular case, with the pandemic, we definitely have spots in the u.s., including where we're sitting right now in new york, where things are definitely getting better. but other parts of the united states, where hospitals are absolutely overwhelmed, there's serious nursing and other staff shortages. and we have these two opposing views, which is why i think that we need to be cautious about how we understand this transition period. hopefully, this will end with -- we're never going to eradi