man: eskom is a 100% state-owned company, so the government owns eskom. eskom d does support, you know, like, the coal industry. the big portion of our e energy generation is babased, you know, like, on c coal. there's been--- it's's called a a [indistincnct] symbiotic relationship betetween the coal-mining industry and eskom. let me put it this way: about 70% ofof the energy requiremenent in south africa ae met through coal. i think, uh, the simple fact is that we'vee got it, it's in abundance. we still have probably 200 more years of coal, youou know, liki, in the ground. woman: is it immoral to open yet another onone in an area like highveld that's clearly got extraordinary levels of pollution on a local level? mashigo: yeah,h, what you need o realize, as i mentioion, i mean, on average over the e past 10 years, coal production in south africa has remained fairly stablele, between 250 and 260 million tons per annum. as in when you open new mines, other mines are closing down. man: coal, for the last hundred years or so, has really powered the economy.