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so asking the institutions for a loan within the esm treaty. in other words, come up with a third package. but also recovery measures measures to regain stability were to be taken and it took quite some time to reach this result. but also this was to be seen on a very long period. to enable greece to recover from the crisis but also a short-term solution to put an end to the dire situation in which greece finds itself. so liquidties have to be found. banks have to be helped and it will be for the finance ministers, this evening, to find the appropriate financing mechanisms and accompany the negotiations for a new program. how did we reach these results? we took some time all night. i'm used to it as you may have noted but we had to devote some time to discussing every point to look into every detail to be able to discuss everything with the eurozone governments, greece, and also with those who were most reluctant. >> at this point we're going to say good-bye to our viewers in cnn u.s. but international, we're going to continue with this news co
so asking the institutions for a loan within the esm treaty. in other words, come up with a third package. but also recovery measures measures to regain stability were to be taken and it took quite some time to reach this result. but also this was to be seen on a very long period. to enable greece to recover from the crisis but also a short-term solution to put an end to the dire situation in which greece finds itself. so liquidties have to be found. banks have to be helped and it will be for...
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and asking the institutions to the long with the esm treaty. go with the third package and were -- common goal with the third package and recovery for stability to be taken. and of course some time to reach the results. but also this was to be seen on a very long period to enable greece to recover from the crisis but also a short-term solution to put an end to the dire situation in which greece fines is sell. liquidity have to be found banks have to be helped. and the finance ministers to find the appropriate financing mechanisms. and accompany the programs. how did we reach of these results? we took some time all night. i am used to it as you know. we had to devote some time to d iscuss every point to look into every detail to be able to discuss everything with the eurozone government. greece and those must reluctant and asking for guarantees. so this franco-german relationship between madame merkel and myself was highly necessary if you wanted to reach a compromise. if there was no liquidity maybe differences of opinion and it may happen but
and asking the institutions to the long with the esm treaty. go with the third package and were -- common goal with the third package and recovery for stability to be taken. and of course some time to reach the results. but also this was to be seen on a very long period to enable greece to recover from the crisis but also a short-term solution to put an end to the dire situation in which greece fines is sell. liquidity have to be found banks have to be helped. and the finance ministers to find...
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Jul 9, 2015
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support for the greeks if they are to get this esm request approved. it will have to go through the german parliament before it can be rubber stamped. so for the sake of making sure that there will be support ultimately for a deal it's incouple ben upon chancellor merkel to make sure that she gets greeks to the table with solid and transparent reform proposals. just back to the question of where are we in this whole story, we're waiting on proposals by the end of day tonight and it's by no means clear that greece will avoid exit from the euro zone at this stage. back to you guys. >> thank you so much for that. let's bring you the latest flashes coming out of turkey. we have a flash saying the current turkish pm from before the elections, he says that the president will probably give him
support for the greeks if they are to get this esm request approved. it will have to go through the german parliament before it can be rubber stamped. so for the sake of making sure that there will be support ultimately for a deal it's incouple ben upon chancellor merkel to make sure that she gets greeks to the table with solid and transparent reform proposals. just back to the question of where are we in this whole story, we're waiting on proposals by the end of day tonight and it's by no...
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alberto: the banks are going to get 25 billion from the esm. they will be recapitalized partly with the 50 billion fund of assets that will be privatized overtime. the greeks have bad loan ratios. one third of their loans is unprofitable or needs to be restructured. they need more capital. we still estimate that bondholders and have to take a loss to help banks with 25,000,000,008. another concern is to consolidate them to smaller numbers. there is a potential loss. is the deal sustainable long-term for greece? manus: as you say, the longevity of this deal, that comes down probably to how much the debt is extended and the level of austerity. the biggest risk in the next 72 hours, what is the biggest risk? alberto: the execution, the approval of the deal. the greek parliament has to approve these measures. they have until wednesday to approve the reforms. we know that the proposal from greece that was presented before the weekend was approved with a majority. now, the left wing of syriza may fall further. some allies may require more concessions
alberto: the banks are going to get 25 billion from the esm. they will be recapitalized partly with the 50 billion fund of assets that will be privatized overtime. the greeks have bad loan ratios. one third of their loans is unprofitable or needs to be restructured. they need more capital. we still estimate that bondholders and have to take a loss to help banks with 25,000,000,008. another concern is to consolidate them to smaller numbers. there is a potential loss. is the deal sustainable...
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already to go for esm program with greece with serious reforms and financial support.econds ago from donald tusk. allow me to repeat it again in case you missed it. the european council president has now tweeted after more than 16 hours of negotiations in brussels euro summit has unanimously reached an agreement. already to go for esm program for #greece with serious reforms and financial support. now we will be looking the detail of that four-page agreement. what was -- what is in it that wasn't in it before? and vice versa. for instance we are pretty certain that the supposed temporary grexit or time out of the euro area we're pretty certain that's not in it. we're pretty certain t
already to go for esm program with greece with serious reforms and financial support.econds ago from donald tusk. allow me to repeat it again in case you missed it. the european council president has now tweeted after more than 16 hours of negotiations in brussels euro summit has unanimously reached an agreement. already to go for esm program for #greece with serious reforms and financial support. now we will be looking the detail of that four-page agreement. what was -- what is in it that...
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on the table, we will have a more formal decision by the euro group slash board of governors of the esmich is the decision under argued 13.2 of the treaty, which allows then to start the formal negotiations. and the institutions will do those formal negotiations for us. and then, of course, once that is completed and it would also have to deal with the financing needs and depth sustainability, that will be, again a very important moment to come to a completion of the deal. but that is still weeks ahead because a lot of works will still have to be done. so the first couple of days, attention goes to the greek parliament, as soon as they have done the legislation on the first elements. the national parliament will go to work and hopefully by the end of the week we can take the formal decision and give the mandate to the institution to his drawn the deal. i think that's enough for me. >> thank you very much. i now open the floor for your questions. given the many hours of intense negotiations the presidents will only take a few questions. and we start with the gentlemen there. >> reporter:
on the table, we will have a more formal decision by the euro group slash board of governors of the esmich is the decision under argued 13.2 of the treaty, which allows then to start the formal negotiations. and the institutions will do those formal negotiations for us. and then, of course, once that is completed and it would also have to deal with the financing needs and depth sustainability, that will be, again a very important moment to come to a completion of the deal. but that is still...
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no esm financing for the banks? are not looking at esm financing for the banks right now. that is absolutely clear. hans: well, thank you very much. we will toss it back to you in new york. what i heard very clear, no bridge financing unless maybe there is conditionality. this is not over just yet. tom: thank you so much. they have to have a government to speak to in greece. what is the likelihood within your reading and reporting, the fact that tsipras will be in power 30 days or three months from now? brendan: the most important number for them is 17, the number of syriza in parliament who did not vote. we did not know if he could hold onto the parliamentary coalition. i have to say what really jumped out to me is what jumped out to hans nichols. we have not decided on bridge financing yet. he said it twice. alexander stubb -- as he said it is not over yet. tom: pretty grim about certitude this morning. we need to do a twitter question right now on the never-ending drama. is this the last bailout for greece? that
no esm financing for the banks? are not looking at esm financing for the banks right now. that is absolutely clear. hans: well, thank you very much. we will toss it back to you in new york. what i heard very clear, no bridge financing unless maybe there is conditionality. this is not over just yet. tom: thank you so much. they have to have a government to speak to in greece. what is the likelihood within your reading and reporting, the fact that tsipras will be in power 30 days or three months...
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Jul 6, 2015
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the greeks must ask for the esm. the european stability mechanism.rgeverything greece has ever presented does not qualify for an esm. she's saying you have to do all of these things and nothing we've ever seen from the greeks even the supposedly close proposal, is in you have at this point. and because the situation's gotten even worse in the last couple of weeks because of this referendum announcement they're going to have to bring even harsher proposals than we have ever seen. she's going to say, of course that they're hope to negotiations. she's going do listen. but after that they're really going to have to see something solid. i'm not sure that it ever gave tsipras a better negotiating situation if he got a no. there are so many rules in place and the germans have their own political constituency that also vote as well. and so you have two different sets of voters fighting especially via their politicians. i'm not sure that it actually gives him any more power at this point. we have a guest here that we want to talk to. >> sure. >> go ahead. >>
the greeks must ask for the esm. the european stability mechanism.rgeverything greece has ever presented does not qualify for an esm. she's saying you have to do all of these things and nothing we've ever seen from the greeks even the supposedly close proposal, is in you have at this point. and because the situation's gotten even worse in the last couple of weeks because of this referendum announcement they're going to have to bring even harsher proposals than we have ever seen. she's going to...
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greece has requested a formal esm programme, which is a programme that in prin mr is as comprehensive as an i.m.f. programme, meaning the conditionality that greece will be asked to sign up for is, in my view, more comprehensive and more rigorous than the conditionality that the greek voters rejected at the referendum last week. so that idea that alexis tsipras would have a stronger mandate is basically a memo that the rest of the eurozone has not gotten. this is not going to be an easy programme. if there's no deal come monday it is clear that the 18 other members of the eurozone and potentially the other 27 members of the iowa decided to cut greece loose. so that you could find yourself with a situation of a directly imploding economy in greece already next week as well as a process, a longer term process leading for the country's departure from the eurozone and the e.u. has a whole. >> to other news. 1300 countries stopped trading their shares on the two major exchanges. trying to stop the market losses after stocks slumped 30% since june. our correspondent has more from beijing. 1
greece has requested a formal esm programme, which is a programme that in prin mr is as comprehensive as an i.m.f. programme, meaning the conditionality that greece will be asked to sign up for is, in my view, more comprehensive and more rigorous than the conditionality that the greek voters rejected at the referendum last week. so that idea that alexis tsipras would have a stronger mandate is basically a memo that the rest of the eurozone has not gotten. this is not going to be an easy...
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. >> formal esm program a program as comprehensive as the regular imf type program which will mine that the conditionality that greece will be asked to sign up for, will be arguably more rigorous than the conditionality that the greek voters rejected at the referendum last week. so this idea that alexis tsipras should have a stronger mandate to negotiate with the european partners after the referendum, is basically a memo that the rest of the euro zone has not gotten. because this is not going to be an easy program by any strej of thestretchof the imagination. and if there is no deal, come monday the other 18 members of the euro zone, or all the other 27 members of the eu have decided to cut potentially greece loose. so you could find yourself with a situation of a directly imploding economy in greece already next week as well as a process a longer term process leading for country's departure from both the euro zone and the eu as a whole. >> reporter: now nearly 1300 listed countries in china have started trading their shares on the country's main exchange. scott heidler has more from b
. >> formal esm program a program as comprehensive as the regular imf type program which will mine that the conditionality that greece will be asked to sign up for, will be arguably more rigorous than the conditionality that the greek voters rejected at the referendum last week. so this idea that alexis tsipras should have a stronger mandate to negotiate with the european partners after the referendum, is basically a memo that the rest of the euro zone has not gotten. because this is not...
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the ministers also broadly agreed that if there is to be another esm program which supports it wouldasons of credibility, the problems in greece are deep and will need our attention for quite a time to come. so we would be talking about a medium term program. >> are you optimistic after what you heard from the new minister? >> it's too early to say. you must realize that in the mind of the eurogroup, the problems in greece do really need credible reforms to deal with those problems. therefore, we need to hear from the greek government whether they have such reforms in mind whether they are prepared politically prepared to do those. that's what we will hear from them very, very soon. [ talking at once ] >> do you expect concrete proposal today? >> we were under the suggestion that they might have come today, but they were not available yet. first step now is to have a new letter. the old letter had a number of different requests. we would like to receive a new letter and we will receive it quite quickly. >> do we have time for all this? >> do we have time for all this? >> there is a g
the ministers also broadly agreed that if there is to be another esm program which supports it wouldasons of credibility, the problems in greece are deep and will need our attention for quite a time to come. so we would be talking about a medium term program. >> are you optimistic after what you heard from the new minister? >> it's too early to say. you must realize that in the mind of the eurogroup, the problems in greece do really need credible reforms to deal with those problems....
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we still need at least four weeks of very difficult negotiations to achieve a new program within the esm. this is not going to be very easy. the german government has actually stated that very clear even today. the debt ceiling ability is going to be a big issue throughout this four weeks. greek government is demanding a haircut. they're not going to get it. >> he's saying he doesn't think it will work. he presented it to parliament and said, at the same time, i don't believe this will work. >> yes. which causes, of course, a big problem regarding the programs' ownership, as we call it. i mean if the greek government itself cannot support this program, it's a very difficult program. it's a very difficult program on the greek people. if the government itself cannot support it, how do you expect the people to accept it? and also, the administration to implement it, because this is also a huge issue to greeks. you can get some laws through parliament but the implementation is a whole different story. >> you call it muddling through. isn't that what economists usually do? >> probably. but th
we still need at least four weeks of very difficult negotiations to achieve a new program within the esm. this is not going to be very easy. the german government has actually stated that very clear even today. the debt ceiling ability is going to be a big issue throughout this four weeks. greek government is demanding a haircut. they're not going to get it. >> he's saying he doesn't think it will work. he presented it to parliament and said, at the same time, i don't believe this will...
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there is a second -- a separate esm request. that will be a difficult process.e a long process. it may be to -- it may take a month's time. >> it will involve a lot more in terms of substance and commitments and financing needs and it will take time to negotiate that. we have asked the institutions to do that is quickly as possible. bu t it will be closer to four weeks than two weeks. some call me an optimist. >> there are some big payments that greece owes. they missed a 450 million euro payment to the imf. they did pay 100 million, the smaller semi-bond -- samurai bond. anna: we are grateful for the german creativity. thank you. guy: let's bring in our guest. saying i have my doubts about the implementation of this agreement. that will promote negative feelings. i wonder if the best solution was actually in a fit. that is a member of the ecb's governing council. lena: if there is confirmation the euro is breakable, this is probably it. what we have learned through this debacle is the ecb's promise of whatever it takes to protect the euro is [indiscernible] the
there is a second -- a separate esm request. that will be a difficult process.e a long process. it may be to -- it may take a month's time. >> it will involve a lot more in terms of substance and commitments and financing needs and it will take time to negotiate that. we have asked the institutions to do that is quickly as possible. bu t it will be closer to four weeks than two weeks. some call me an optimist. >> there are some big payments that greece owes. they missed a 450...
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the esm program to formally begin. nevertheless, the decision gives greece a chance to bet back on the track -- on track with the support of european partners. >> dawned tusk there. well the greek prime minister has been giving his reaction to the agreement. >> translator: we had a strong battle now over the past six months. and up until the very end we fought really hard. and the best possible agreement which will give us the possibility for greece to stands on its feet again. so that greek can continues to carry on with their daily battles. >> so john is in athens, you have been listening to all of this john, just heard from mr. tsipras there saying this deal will allow grays to stands ongreece to standson its own two feet and averting severe measures but looks as if they will suffer anyway, aren't they? >> reporter: the there are difficult points the french president saying the greek parliament has to reconvene in the next few hours more debate. more political compromise that his had have to be made in athens and i
the esm program to formally begin. nevertheless, the decision gives greece a chance to bet back on the track -- on track with the support of european partners. >> dawned tusk there. well the greek prime minister has been giving his reaction to the agreement. >> translator: we had a strong battle now over the past six months. and up until the very end we fought really hard. and the best possible agreement which will give us the possibility for greece to stands on its feet again. so...
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if they defaulted on that, or even on the esm loans, esm only capitalized with 80 billion and greeceole thing -- the whole thing is a mess. >> the last couple of weeks, we have seen a lot of surprise. everyone thought things were going smoothly, suddenly, we have a hiccup. counting everything goes smoothly this weeks, i think you have to be a tiny bet skeptical on that it feels like both sides are trying to keep greece inside. how do you square when looking at the market,, we have this noise from greece, it is a real problem, but it is a small piece of the economy, not a lot of contagion anymore. does greece continue to make you worried about europe or do you think that the retrace.we have got in european stocks over the last two months or so relatively speaking, is an opportunity, especially with the european central bank there on track to build its balance sheet to about 3.2 trillion your rose by next september? >> i think the markets are drinking the kool-aid that the government hands out. i get the joke that you have to pay attention to the markets to win, but you also have to ha
if they defaulted on that, or even on the esm loans, esm only capitalized with 80 billion and greeceole thing -- the whole thing is a mess. >> the last couple of weeks, we have seen a lot of surprise. everyone thought things were going smoothly, suddenly, we have a hiccup. counting everything goes smoothly this weeks, i think you have to be a tiny bet skeptical on that it feels like both sides are trying to keep greece inside. how do you square when looking at the market,, we have this...
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that after all of the talking, the preconditions for the resumption of the program on the basis of the esmre not there. we are ready to do everything we can to protect the eurozone and the euro as a whole. zeb: you have the french president speaking as well saying we need to seek respectbility, we need and solidarity and speed. that: ultimatum suggests greece could be kicked out of the europe but is it as simple as that? unclearis not and it is what exact mechanism legal or otherwise the eurozone leaders to kick out one of its own. .t would be a complex process it is clear it would not be a monday morning exit from the euro. it would be a managed process. the european commission president said we have multiple scenarios in place. he said the scenario is prepared in detail but you sense there they arebit of -- using the final force they can in this particular situation but it is not as cut and dry as it seems. the ecb made it very they will work to limit its location in the market. a lot of fed up people. drama. angie: drama indeed. thank you. wall street seems to think the greek crisis can
that after all of the talking, the preconditions for the resumption of the program on the basis of the esmre not there. we are ready to do everything we can to protect the eurozone and the euro as a whole. zeb: you have the french president speaking as well saying we need to seek respectbility, we need and solidarity and speed. that: ultimatum suggests greece could be kicked out of the europe but is it as simple as that? unclearis not and it is what exact mechanism legal or otherwise the...
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no one thinks the 86 billion esm fund is going to be easy. you need something to tide you over. the 7 billion, the way we think it is going to work is it is going to be from a 2012 fund the u.k. had initially opposed. lawyers have figured a way around that and will gloss over by saying ecb interest payments are going to be the collateral. looks like they have a bridge and will announce it tomorrow. brendan: does sound like the stumbling block of the fund is it is blocked by full faith and credit of all eurozone members. hans: if you have full faith and credit of all 28 eu members but losses come from the snp, there are enough profits in the snp to cover the 7 million. i think of it as a fund run out of the ecb. i've got to stop. we are going to be a parody of ourselves. brendan: i'm listening to all of the letters and thinking if you spend enough time in brussels you begin to figure out what they all mean. tom: "surveillance" breaksclus ive. david is in athens. thank you so much. a key topic for mario draghi. we will give you full coverage. the high ground on emerging markets an
no one thinks the 86 billion esm fund is going to be easy. you need something to tide you over. the 7 billion, the way we think it is going to work is it is going to be from a 2012 fund the u.k. had initially opposed. lawyers have figured a way around that and will gloss over by saying ecb interest payments are going to be the collateral. looks like they have a bridge and will announce it tomorrow. brendan: does sound like the stumbling block of the fund is it is blocked by full faith and...
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when you tap the esm there have to be conditions. is willing to except those that has to be a game changer. a lot can happen in a few minutes. manus: mark, you are quite right. let's get to hans. hans we have this potential situation with tsipras prepared to move, but angela merkel made her position really clear yesterday. there is nothing to discuss and you have a referendum. this is brinksmanship at its best, isn't it? hans: angela merkel said that she will not be drawn into the negotiations until the referendum. one way to open up that line of communication is to call off the referendum. what the ft is reporting is that mr. tsipras has accepted all the conditions. we know the latest offer from mr. ujuncker. that does include a lot of prior actions. this would have a fair number of things that greece needs to do. importantly, i don't suspect that it has fundamentally changed in germany -- they need to see a vote in athens before they themselves take a vote. if you had to release any new money, you would have to have a vote here. we
when you tap the esm there have to be conditions. is willing to except those that has to be a game changer. a lot can happen in a few minutes. manus: mark, you are quite right. let's get to hans. hans we have this potential situation with tsipras prepared to move, but angela merkel made her position really clear yesterday. there is nothing to discuss and you have a referendum. this is brinksmanship at its best, isn't it? hans: angela merkel said that she will not be drawn into the negotiations...
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it is interesting, coming out of the esm.a: the esm chief talking about and giving conflicting messages, the greek banks pose risk to euro's ability. the banks are sovereign, he goes on to say the contagion risks are no longer there. that is what this whole thing is about, putting a firewall between the banking sector. guy: i think he may be overemphasizing that at the moment. i think those two are very closely linked, look at the capital base of the greek bank. the two are investing which will. anna: let's get some other thoughts on it. let's talk to david lee, senior analyst at control risk. saying that the greek banks still pose a risk, the contagion risks to sovereignity are still there. did they pave the way for a bailout> how has it managed to move the banking section away is that a sort of destination they're trying to get to? david: i think that is the direction everyone he wants to move in. but it is questionable how fast we are moving. the banking system is still very unstable. and that is going to have the effect o
it is interesting, coming out of the esm.a: the esm chief talking about and giving conflicting messages, the greek banks pose risk to euro's ability. the banks are sovereign, he goes on to say the contagion risks are no longer there. that is what this whole thing is about, putting a firewall between the banking sector. guy: i think he may be overemphasizing that at the moment. i think those two are very closely linked, look at the capital base of the greek bank. the two are investing which...
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there's a new esm request. i'm not sure i have know what greek people would be voting upon.ould you agree. >> that is a question you will have to ask the greek government. i'm not opposed to referendum. they can be a useful instrument. the big question is what is actually the question you put to the people and what's the alternative? i think it is up to the greek government and political parties that are campaigning for or against to answer those questions. so i won't interfere with that. what i do know is unfortunately the last chance to get a solid extension of the old program has gone by. the ecb had to take measures to maintain stability of the banks and we are now in a difficult situation. >> that was more than ten years ago that argentina found itself in a similar difficult situation. later this hour we will find out what greece can learn from argentina and the decade of recovery. >>> more information on the breaking news at this hour. a fire at a predominantly black church in south carolina has people talking on social media, connecting it to a number of other fires t
there's a new esm request. i'm not sure i have know what greek people would be voting upon.ould you agree. >> that is a question you will have to ask the greek government. i'm not opposed to referendum. they can be a useful instrument. the big question is what is actually the question you put to the people and what's the alternative? i think it is up to the greek government and political parties that are campaigning for or against to answer those questions. so i won't interfere with that....
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. >> leaders have agreed in principle that they are ready to start negotiations on an esm program.in in other words means continued support for greece. >> the deal provides nearly $100 billion to greece but comes with tough reforms. this includes increasing certain taxes, reforming pensions and cutting budgets. greek voters rejected similar austerity measures last week in a big vote parliament must vote by wednesday before the country can begin normformal bailout negotiations with european nations. still to come donald trump's comments and his impact on the rubble cabepublican party. and 15 is now the number for 2015. >>> i'm hampton pearson with your market wrap. stocks rally on relief about greece. the dow climbs 217, the s&p up by 23, the nasdaq gains 73 points. goldman sachs has agreed to buy asset management firm imprint capital advisers. the deal is expected to close in the next few months. terms with s withs with s withs with s withs with disclosed. and comcast is launching a streaming service to allow users to watch a variety of tv networks on smart phones and tablets costi
. >> leaders have agreed in principle that they are ready to start negotiations on an esm program.in in other words means continued support for greece. >> the deal provides nearly $100 billion to greece but comes with tough reforms. this includes increasing certain taxes, reforming pensions and cutting budgets. greek voters rejected similar austerity measures last week in a big vote parliament must vote by wednesday before the country can begin normformal bailout negotiations with...
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and that would come from the esm, the all-singing bailout fund. with all that money needs to come some give-and-take. so a lot of work to decide what greece is prepared to do what cuts they're prepared to make for that chunk of the money. >> is it make or break today or is the proposal just sort of thrown out by the french and germans? the ecb is really holding it right now. >> reporter: absolutely. i say make or break day, max, because it is critical that money is running out. and we saw yesterday ecb not preparing to move. ecb normally doesn't take a political stance but many are saying these decisions are somewhat political. because they decide not to increase the liquidity to the greek bank. that means that greek banks would have to stay shut. but today, really is up to greece to show some constructive plans. now before, all greece was doing as they're going into the meeting was coming up with ideas, just ideas, max. there is no time for ideas now. the banks do not have the money. they need some very definitive proposals of what needs to be do
and that would come from the esm, the all-singing bailout fund. with all that money needs to come some give-and-take. so a lot of work to decide what greece is prepared to do what cuts they're prepared to make for that chunk of the money. >> is it make or break today or is the proposal just sort of thrown out by the french and germans? the ecb is really holding it right now. >> reporter: absolutely. i say make or break day, max, because it is critical that money is running out. and...
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Jul 8, 2015
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they submitted this esm document that had three important concessions.ing for three years not two and they talked about prior actions as early as next week. that is doing things in parliament to say they are serious and they were pretty fuzzy on the debt write-down. that is a formal request for a three-year loan as a positive sign. it is not definitive because we still need to know what the details are but listening to tsipras now especially saying we would've had a deal had it just been with the eu, it's like he wants to go out of his way to antagonize merkel, schaeuble and the imf. brendan: it sounds like if they are fuzzy on the idea of a debt write-down that looks like a concession? hans: yes. the way it was phrased and i just glanced at the document was we welcome the opportunity to discuss some sort of measures to make their debt more sustainable. that is a long way from saying we demand a debt write-down before we talk about prior action or any of the things we need to do to structurally reform our economy let alone how they raise taxes, collect t
they submitted this esm document that had three important concessions.ing for three years not two and they talked about prior actions as early as next week. that is doing things in parliament to say they are serious and they were pretty fuzzy on the debt write-down. that is a formal request for a three-year loan as a positive sign. it is not definitive because we still need to know what the details are but listening to tsipras now especially saying we would've had a deal had it just been with...
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Jul 9, 2015
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dash cam tsipras -- guy: yesterday we saw the formal letter to the esm -- the application is now in and that we have to come up with the details, and we have until midnight brussels time tonight before we get that. so what are we looking for? remember this is a three-year deal they are applying for -- this isn't just a back in, it is a whole new program. in the words of mr. tsipras it will be comprehensive and specific. they are being done at an incredibly short period of time. normally it takes weeks or months to get this done -- we are going to be doing it in 24 hours. so what do we think we in there? there will be a lot of changes on pension a lot of changes on the taxation system. will there be any application for debt restructuring? the u.s. was involved in the story yesterday, jack lew talking about how the greece needs some debt restructuring. he is putting pressure on the other side of the story. the have until midnight tonight. then we get that story restored and it then goes into the eurogroup and to the leaders on sunday. it was said yesterday that this was part of the proces
dash cam tsipras -- guy: yesterday we saw the formal letter to the esm -- the application is now in and that we have to come up with the details, and we have until midnight brussels time tonight before we get that. so what are we looking for? remember this is a three-year deal they are applying for -- this isn't just a back in, it is a whole new program. in the words of mr. tsipras it will be comprehensive and specific. they are being done at an incredibly short period of time. normally it...
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at the same time, we are saying that the preconditions to enter negotiations for a concrete esm program given at this time. tomorrow it will be important that the greek prime minister tells us how to proceed. and what precise proposals he can offer regarding a midterm program. that will lead greeks back into prosperity and growth area -- growth. hans: it is hurting greece it could be a viable play. greece needs to make some painful decisions, he said. there was a euro area working group conference call. according to two people familiar, there was not a whole lot of progress, very little progress made there. finance ministers meet at one and the leaders are here at six. a flurry of calls yesterday. president barack obama urged him to get a deal. we will see if pressure from the americans has any effect. the greek banks will be closed likely through thursday, maybe through the end of the week. ryan: i re-watched the interview you did with greece's new finance minister. is he going to cut a deal and what should we take away from this picture that was making its way around twitter with wher
at the same time, we are saying that the preconditions to enter negotiations for a concrete esm program given at this time. tomorrow it will be important that the greek prime minister tells us how to proceed. and what precise proposals he can offer regarding a midterm program. that will lead greeks back into prosperity and growth area -- growth. hans: it is hurting greece it could be a viable play. greece needs to make some painful decisions, he said. there was a euro area working group...
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Jul 17, 2015
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and esm program.decision to start the negotiations is undertaken the european commission, and imf can start an understanding with greece. that sustainability is what -- that sustainability is one of the issues that will be discussed. >> and went on to say that euros states are willing to talk about greek debt. but the euro states have ruled out any nominal haircuts similar to what we have heard from some in the german camps. payments on those debts can be looked at. around the greek bridging loan non-eu members will be protected from any risks surrounding providing a bridging loan to the greeks, something the u.k. has been worried about in particular. they'll be signed off on in about an hour in brussels. he said there were two tiers of protection meaning none of this would stick to the non-euro countries. manus: great work anna edwards, caroline hyde and hans nichols. let's bring in ian cameron. the global chief investment strategist. fate has done us together again. what you make of the situation so
and esm program.decision to start the negotiations is undertaken the european commission, and imf can start an understanding with greece. that sustainability is what -- that sustainability is one of the issues that will be discussed. >> and went on to say that euros states are willing to talk about greek debt. but the euro states have ruled out any nominal haircuts similar to what we have heard from some in the german camps. payments on those debts can be looked at. around the greek...
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Jul 15, 2015
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can we use the esm as a temporary payor? then you see osborne saying wait a second. will not have the u.k. on the line for $1 billion. manus: the european commission set to propose the effm for the greek bridge financing. again, even this morning as we wake up, they still do not have that bridge financing. let's take a step back. we should have been more focused on china. less focused in terms of greece. the european equity story. we bounced off lows. we saw the primitive -- the periphery market. how do you look at european equities relative to the u.s. and to china exposure? alex: first to your point about focus on china and not on greece . greece is not so much an economic issue as a political issue. in terms of europe overall, i think we can fall back on three basics. compared to the united states valuations are more attractive. nice tailwinds with energy prices that are cheap. you've got oil that is cheaper. the big issue will be what happens to the currency. her has been some profit taking which has driven down equities. -- there has been some some profit. it ha
can we use the esm as a temporary payor? then you see osborne saying wait a second. will not have the u.k. on the line for $1 billion. manus: the european commission set to propose the effm for the greek bridge financing. again, even this morning as we wake up, they still do not have that bridge financing. let's take a step back. we should have been more focused on china. less focused in terms of greece. the european equity story. we bounced off lows. we saw the primitive -- the periphery...
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Jul 15, 2015
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cnbc that a uk safe guard is being worked on that could evolve using markets from the program if the esm deal fails. >> now fed chair janet yellen will deliver part one of her semiannual testimony on monetary policy to congress today. she goes before the house financial services committee at 10:00 a.m. eastern time. this time after trading testy exchanges earlier this year. the hearing also comes two weeks before the fomc meeting so unlikely yellen will drop policy hints unless she wants to see a september rate hike. >> american manufacturing firms are bullish for the next 12 months according to a survey that suggests that 91% of executives think their business is either holding steady or thriving. it warns that american manufacturers need to be more innovative to keep up with their nonu.s. counter parts who are more likely to invest in cloud and social media. let's talk more about the of manufacturing sector with the leader of the industrial products. when you say innovation what do you mean by that? >> a couple of things. you mentioned the survey. most predict their businesses will inc
cnbc that a uk safe guard is being worked on that could evolve using markets from the program if the esm deal fails. >> now fed chair janet yellen will deliver part one of her semiannual testimony on monetary policy to congress today. she goes before the house financial services committee at 10:00 a.m. eastern time. this time after trading testy exchanges earlier this year. the hearing also comes two weeks before the fomc meeting so unlikely yellen will drop policy hints unless she wants...
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there is esm< esfm and this arcane language. what do we need to focus on?alphabet and the roman numeral's. think only of actual numbers and the size of greek debt and ask yourself if any of these alphabet soup agency numbers funding can come together to get us through next month and down the line. how does greece ever grow if they have 200% debt to gdp ratio in two years. that will be the jack lew argument when he meets with his counterparts. then meets with mr. schaeuble invert -- in berlin tomorrow. we'll see how he follows up swapping puerto rico for greece. brendan: david gora, where you are in athens -- we just had this news that the deputy finance minister resigned. is this a one-off or a start of a larger flight? reporter: i have heard from a lot of people that we will see a lot more reshuffling within the cabinet. that well prime minister tsipras has managed to consolidate people are not happy with the crowd around him. i will say that this is something i have heard from a lot of people. last night in his interview he said that he wanted to put to r
there is esm< esfm and this arcane language. what do we need to focus on?alphabet and the roman numeral's. think only of actual numbers and the size of greek debt and ask yourself if any of these alphabet soup agency numbers funding can come together to get us through next month and down the line. how does greece ever grow if they have 200% debt to gdp ratio in two years. that will be the jack lew argument when he meets with his counterparts. then meets with mr. schaeuble invert -- in berlin...
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are playing around with it are you they are looking to bridge the gap and get to greece through the esmey. the lawyers are working harder than negotiators because it seems to be a technical problem not a political one of. manus: thank you. hans nichols. all of the bases covered on greece. what else is on our radar for this tuesday. hillary clinton as outlined a plan for economic growth focus on america's middle class. she said the united states has to build a fair economy. hillary clinton: i have had the opportunity to listen to what americans concerns about an economy that still is not delivering for them. it is not delivering the way it should. it still seems to most americans i have spoken with, it is stacked for those at the top. manus: facebook's market value have cap desktop twitter -- topped $250 billion. yesterday, they hit a record close. it is three years after their ipo. the fastest company on the s&p 500 to achieve $250 billion hundred $50 billion. the previous record holder was google which took eight years. the next few hours, nasa's spacecraft will fly past pluto. the tri
are playing around with it are you they are looking to bridge the gap and get to greece through the esmey. the lawyers are working harder than negotiators because it seems to be a technical problem not a political one of. manus: thank you. hans nichols. all of the bases covered on greece. what else is on our radar for this tuesday. hillary clinton as outlined a plan for economic growth focus on america's middle class. she said the united states has to build a fair economy. hillary clinton: i...
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guy was saying it is 47-43, it is not a simple skin graft to take that old document and put it on the esm. as a german finance minister is hitting, that old offer has expired. they will need to renegotiate. the question is do they renegotiate with the technical government in its place? anna: thanks so much hans nichols joining us from berlin. guy johnson in athens. we will bring you live and continuous action of sunday's referendum. that is from 11:00 p.m. u.k. time on sunday. on jul5y 5, with coverage continuing into monday. we will have all of the reaction to the referendum. stocks in asia rose for the third day, ahead of the u.s. jobs report. turmoil continues that will be a big focus on the markets. let's get to david, he has the latest from hong kong. david: good morning, you're absolutely right. investors just getting out of the lunch break, certainly one eye on greece. immediate point of focus is the jobs report you were mentioning. if you do get a blowout number there, and the government shifts to the wage increases, as the economy is trying to get rid of the labor market, it puts
guy was saying it is 47-43, it is not a simple skin graft to take that old document and put it on the esm. as a german finance minister is hitting, that old offer has expired. they will need to renegotiate. the question is do they renegotiate with the technical government in its place? anna: thanks so much hans nichols joining us from berlin. guy johnson in athens. we will bring you live and continuous action of sunday's referendum. that is from 11:00 p.m. u.k. time on sunday. on jul5y 5, with...
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Jul 13, 2015
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other interesting aspect of the interview, he said that a bank bailout would not be coming from the esms have a huge cache problem. they have a shortage. how they figure out how to get cash from the ecb or some the quincy line into the greek thanks is a huge question. it is an open one. so far, no one has provided compounds of action. erik: back to you in new york city. let's try distinction between politics of these negotiations and the deal in principle and the economics. what are the economics of what mr. tsipras had to agree to? mike: greece had started to grow, now they are back in recession. there is going to be pain in the short run because they will be raising taxes and cutting penson payments. forcing german style business reforms unto the greek economy. over the longer term that should be good for the economy to help it grow. they want this $50 billion bailout to put the assets of greeks into a fun so they can sell them off. the water utility, the electric utility. they agreed to do that in 2010 and never did it. what tsipras did not get is an agreement that they can take the
other interesting aspect of the interview, he said that a bank bailout would not be coming from the esms have a huge cache problem. they have a shortage. how they figure out how to get cash from the ecb or some the quincy line into the greek thanks is a huge question. it is an open one. so far, no one has provided compounds of action. erik: back to you in new york city. let's try distinction between politics of these negotiations and the deal in principle and the economics. what are the...
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sometime today, they have to submit formally the request to the esm. in two days, greece must submit their actual proposals, what they are going to do. on the 11th, we will have a eurogroup meeting to discuss the program, and on the 12th, we will have eu leaders. first the 19 meters will lead, followed by the 28. the council president said he was concerned about what would happen on the sunday meeting if they didn't get a deal, and he was suggesting that that would mean humanitarian aid. >> the situation is really critical. unfortunately, we can't exclude the black scenario. no agreement until sunday. it means of course that we need to discuss the consequences for the whole european union, not only for the eurozone. the netherlands was also pessimistic. in fact, most of them were. a colleague of mine standing out there watching all the prime ministers and presidents leave, he said pretty much all of them had frowns on their faces. all of them looked down, with one exception, angela merkel. she seemed to be the only one a little cheery. ryan: i want to
sometime today, they have to submit formally the request to the esm. in two days, greece must submit their actual proposals, what they are going to do. on the 11th, we will have a eurogroup meeting to discuss the program, and on the 12th, we will have eu leaders. first the 19 meters will lead, followed by the 28. the council president said he was concerned about what would happen on the sunday meeting if they didn't get a deal, and he was suggesting that that would mean humanitarian aid....
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he sees the condition in place for negotiating an esm program for greece. yesterday euro zone finance ministers signed off on a 7 million euro bridge loan for greece but here's a very interesting comment from angela merkel. she says hair cut in the euro system is not possible. so once again that pitts the germans against the imf and the u.s. joining us now is the chief international economist at ing commercial banking. what do you make about that debate over debt relief? seems as though angela merkel isn't getting any ground here. >> it isn't and without a proper cut to the outstanding stock of greek debt and is there anything meaningful that can be done to push them out further than they are. not repaying any debt service cost right now. it's going to make a substantial difference. the only thing that really makes a difference is if you look and say it's not 200%. it's another number substantially lower than that then they can make the changes and everybody else can get on with with it. the argument is bogged down. >> the problem is both sides are pretty s
he sees the condition in place for negotiating an esm program for greece. yesterday euro zone finance ministers signed off on a 7 million euro bridge loan for greece but here's a very interesting comment from angela merkel. she says hair cut in the euro system is not possible. so once again that pitts the germans against the imf and the u.s. joining us now is the chief international economist at ing commercial banking. what do you make about that debate over debt relief? seems as though angela...
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and greece we have esm resources made running out because the conditionality is not being made. that is one of the interesting things. what is the conditionality policy adjustment enforcement mechanism in europe and what will it be important rico. up the moment, for puerto, for puerto rico there is none. there is no bankruptcy system but one could imagine a dc control board. i mean,, that was a real policy adjustment enforcement. and puerto rico is also an article one territory governed by the congress at the end of the day under our constitutional scheme and there will be some back-and-forth about the terms and conditions of the compact between puerto rico and the united states. one could imagine this type of solution. heaven knows, there is a big movement in the district of columbia. in the dc control board was put in even jesse jackson said well this won't be so bad. it might further the cause of statehood. that might be a possibility. in europe on the other hand it's the classic notetaking no laundry. and thus the impasse we are now which we will see playing out. the liquidi
and greece we have esm resources made running out because the conditionality is not being made. that is one of the interesting things. what is the conditionality policy adjustment enforcement mechanism in europe and what will it be important rico. up the moment, for puerto, for puerto rico there is none. there is no bankruptcy system but one could imagine a dc control board. i mean,, that was a real policy adjustment enforcement. and puerto rico is also an article one territory governed by the...
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or will that be on likely esm deal? what will it be? >> i'm not sure there's time to change the question now so we're still stuck with a referendum that is on the proposals back on the 25th of june which quite frankly now are part of a deal being negotiated but i know you and i were talking about this on twitter last night in particular too. i think what we have to remember is those proposals formed the backbone of any future deal. a third bailout deal anyway. so if they want to argue it they can say these conditions are going to be part of any future deal we sign anyway and of course that's now what is being negotiated already. yes there needs to be more financing and yes, ultimately the greeks are still pushing for a debt write down and this is also going to come down to the crux of any bailout negotiations. still they're asking for more than the europeans are concerned with. but there's a lot of confusion here still what discretion is going to be and whether people ultimately understand it carolyn, that's not gone away. >> thank you
or will that be on likely esm deal? what will it be? >> i'm not sure there's time to change the question now so we're still stuck with a referendum that is on the proposals back on the 25th of june which quite frankly now are part of a deal being negotiated but i know you and i were talking about this on twitter last night in particular too. i think what we have to remember is those proposals formed the backbone of any future deal. a third bailout deal anyway. so if they want to argue it...
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there's a clause in the bailout package, the esm function which says if a country's debt isn't sustainable, they can't get a bailout. in the end it's up to angela merkel and i want to end with this pretty funny cartoon on the front page of the newspaper here. here are greeks dieing to go swimming in this empty pool and here is mario draug gi with a hose with a little bit of water. and they're saying please fill up the pool. obviously screaming for liquidity for the greek banks which now is the next step. do they get any increased liquidity as a result of what they put on the table today. back to you. >> we'll come back to you later today. obviously an eagle eye on the headlines and we'll wait to see if we hear from anybody from germany or the imf. >> and china shanghai posting the biggest two-day gain since 2008. chanos says the story is yet to play out. as long as china adds credit faster than growth, the real story is months and years ahead. the prime minister saying the economy is stabilizing for what that's worth. >> he's been on that theme for a long time more focussed on the credit s
there's a clause in the bailout package, the esm function which says if a country's debt isn't sustainable, they can't get a bailout. in the end it's up to angela merkel and i want to end with this pretty funny cartoon on the front page of the newspaper here. here are greeks dieing to go swimming in this empty pool and here is mario draug gi with a hose with a little bit of water. and they're saying please fill up the pool. obviously screaming for liquidity for the greek banks which now is the...
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she said the conditions for esm, financial support for greece that could come in before the end of thee conditions are not yet in place. she has said that the euro zone will do everything it feeds to do to protect the euro and the euro zone. of course she has fallen short saying that would be greek debt hair cuts or sore support for gree at this stage without any further fulsome proposals for the greeks on what structural changes they'll make on their economy to improve their public finances. she's been talking. we also had renzi, the italian leader who very much echoing her words saying if we come back on sunday, i hope this is the last meeting on greece we will have. this issue has to be settled definitively on sunday. there is a real desire among the leaders to get this over and done with this week. the austrian leader coming out and saying, we perhaps need to start thinking about a plan b. that sounded quite ominous. i think the news is the greeks seem to have bought themselves a little bit ofime unt sunday at least. back to you. >> a few more days. thank you so much. >>> your heal
she said the conditions for esm, financial support for greece that could come in before the end of thee conditions are not yet in place. she has said that the euro zone will do everything it feeds to do to protect the euro and the euro zone. of course she has fallen short saying that would be greek debt hair cuts or sore support for gree at this stage without any further fulsome proposals for the greeks on what structural changes they'll make on their economy to improve their public finances....
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they tap into the esm structure which requires more approval from governments.have the greek come to the table. greek country is suffocating. at some point the greek government is not going to be able to pay pensions any more and pay government employees, so they'll have to issue ious. odds are they will trade at a discount to cash. >> we know from greek ministers that they have to make these payments coming up the next couple of weeks. they have to count on tax revenues continuing to flow to do that. what is the philosophy of a george papendrai whether it was important for the greeks to go back to the drachma? >> you are going to need debt restructuring. something germany has taken a hard line against. it's hard to see how that deal will come together. if it does his position is certainly greece is much better off staying in the euro. it would be terrible for the greek economy if they didn't make a deal. he is keeping his money in greek banks. i did ask him that. >> he said i have to now. >> you can't take it out. >> keeping all your money in greek banks is sep
they tap into the esm structure which requires more approval from governments.have the greek come to the table. greek country is suffocating. at some point the greek government is not going to be able to pay pensions any more and pay government employees, so they'll have to issue ious. odds are they will trade at a discount to cash. >> we know from greek ministers that they have to make these payments coming up the next couple of weeks. they have to count on tax revenues continuing to...
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they'll come in through the eu 28 fund to paper over the greeks until the esm program is in place and hopefully three months time. that's the current estimation. but of course what it does is give additional arguments. it's sort of marginalized so these funds are being appropriated with different users. i'm not saying this is all truement it's not largely but it's very clearly a difficult argument for cameron or anyone that will campaign for britain to remain in the eu. so this is not inconsequential from that perspective. >> i want one line from you about the take out of the german people from the deal that was agreed at the weekend. is there an acceptance that angela merkel was tough enough in her negotiating tactics? >> my impression is that the balance was right but it's much more visible that there's different views than there were before. many skeptics say this is pushing it too hard. but believe me the vote will be there to support opening negotiations with greece. there will be plenty of votes for that. >> thank you so much. chief foreign ratings officer at s&p. back to you. >
they'll come in through the eu 28 fund to paper over the greeks until the esm program is in place and hopefully three months time. that's the current estimation. but of course what it does is give additional arguments. it's sort of marginalized so these funds are being appropriated with different users. i'm not saying this is all truement it's not largely but it's very clearly a difficult argument for cameron or anyone that will campaign for britain to remain in the eu. so this is not...
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in greece, we have esm resources may be running out because the conditionality is not being met. that is one of the interesting things. what is the conditionality or policy adjustment in person at mechanism in europe and what is it going to be in puerto rico. at the moment for puerto rico there's no bankruptcy system. one could imagine a pc control board. that was real policy adjustment enforcement. puerto rico is also an article i territory. it is governed by congress at the end of the day under a constitutional scheme. there will be some back and forth about the terms and conditions of the compact between puerto rico in the united states. one could imagine this solution and having his there is a big movement in the district of columbia. in the d.c. control board was put in jesse jackson said this isn't going to be so bad. it might further the cause of statehood. so who knows in the puerto rican political discourse how this will play out. that may be a possibility. europe on the other hand you know the classic ftp no laundry, no adjustment, no money. that is the impasse we are i
in greece, we have esm resources may be running out because the conditionality is not being met. that is one of the interesting things. what is the conditionality or policy adjustment in person at mechanism in europe and what is it going to be in puerto rico. at the moment for puerto rico there's no bankruptcy system. one could imagine a pc control board. that was real policy adjustment enforcement. puerto rico is also an article i territory. it is governed by congress at the end of the day...
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to tell at this stage but the greeks have put forward a letter asking for financial support from the esmthis is the european stability mechanism. basically it's an emergency bailout fund. finance ministers now from the eurozone will have to consider if they're prepared to grant the extra funds. at the same time the greek government has said they're extending capital controls through friday ahead of that sunday summit. not everybody thinks the greeks should stay within the eurozone though. prime minister tsipras was, this morning, at a european parliament meeting and the anti-eu politician made his opinions clear. let's listen. >> you cannot have your cake and eat it. they will give you no more these people. they can't afford to. if they give you more they'll have to give other eurozone members more. your moment has come and if you have the courage, you should lead the greek people out of the eurozone with your head held high. get back your democracy. get back control of your country. give your people, give your people the leadership and the hope that they crave. it will be tough for the
to tell at this stage but the greeks have put forward a letter asking for financial support from the esmthis is the european stability mechanism. basically it's an emergency bailout fund. finance ministers now from the eurozone will have to consider if they're prepared to grant the extra funds. at the same time the greek government has said they're extending capital controls through friday ahead of that sunday summit. not everybody thinks the greeks should stay within the eurozone though. prime...
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nobody takes that private into consideration they say oh, public debt all in hands hadn't ecb, or that esmthe public sector institutions, but the private side would default as wells if they go back to drachma they can't service the debt in euros if they get paid pennies, in a new you currency set up so that default would reverberate through european banking system then you have your exposure to u.s. banks, because they all interconnected, there is the interbank market all banks are relying on spreads between libor, and ois, so it will if a chaotic will have a drastically impact first and foremost on u.s. banking system then european economy will go into recession, that, of course, will have a big impact on euro's exporters, u.s. growth. >> robert, cheryl casone i've been hearing on the other side of this basically the imf wanted this to happen wanted default from greeks, because in their mind this was a message to italy portugal to spain, to a get finance minister house in order because they would be so scared by what they are seeing on their television screens, which is going to be chaos
nobody takes that private into consideration they say oh, public debt all in hands hadn't ecb, or that esmthe public sector institutions, but the private side would default as wells if they go back to drachma they can't service the debt in euros if they get paid pennies, in a new you currency set up so that default would reverberate through european banking system then you have your exposure to u.s. banks, because they all interconnected, there is the interbank market all banks are relying on...
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understand that the greeks have applied for emergency funding support through the mechanism known as the esm. sits european stability mechanism. this might help give them a short-term loan which might help them pay their ecb debt due on the 20th of july. that will be under consideration now by euro zone finance ministers. let me move the story on and take you to athens and michelle. >> thank you jeff. i know there's a lot of skepticism about sunday being the final deal but that's certainly how the greeks feel. let me show you the headline which is is euro on drachma on sunday. when you talk to individuals i would say it's near panic. this is the beginning of the end. the toalty on radio and television as well and they are broadcasting the european parliament across the country right now. the thing that jeff ruz referring to. the thing going on at the moment. listening to what's going on that's not being translated into greek and all greexks woke up to this morning was the following sound bites from the meeting which sounded incredibly harsh. >> i'm strongly rejecting all of these accusations
understand that the greeks have applied for emergency funding support through the mechanism known as the esm. sits european stability mechanism. this might help give them a short-term loan which might help them pay their ecb debt due on the 20th of july. that will be under consideration now by euro zone finance ministers. let me move the story on and take you to athens and michelle. >> thank you jeff. i know there's a lot of skepticism about sunday being the final deal but that's...