must admit the history of estonia -- we must admit the history of estonia.he problem of recognizing the soviet experience are topics putting people in estonia in different places. >> the museum collects everything that recalls the region's mining and the soviet era. alexander shows us a mockup of a living room from the 1950's, ration coupons for vodka, and a portrait of stalin. since the demise of the soviet union, he has not really found his feet in an independent estonia. >> the way i understand the word "integration," it would have had to come from both sides, from russians but also from the estonian majority. >> many estonians have given the russian minority the cold shoulder. one parliamentary delegate organized an exhibition about the struggle of estonians against the soviets. he mistrusts russians. >> now, regarding the new aggressiveness from russia, of course, it is again under more attention, what to do with this situation. but we still think that it's not right to just give everyone citizenship. >> the riots are long over. the young no longer come

chris regan spoke with estonia's prime minister.ith regan estonia's prime minister. >> he is only 35 years old and married to a pop star. he is the youngest eu prime minister. we talk a lot about russia. that is a concern in the region. he talked about the fact that estonia is part of nato and he does not need to be concerned in the way that ukraine would be. something i found incredibly interesting was the cyber digital identity that all of the residence in estonia have. do you know that one third of the people in estonia vote online? they do their taxes online. everything is done online there. everybody has a digital , which is kind of remarkable. we have talked in this country about having a digital id or digital id cards. they have actually done it. there are fewer people there, so it is a little easier, but they are known as the most wired country on earth. talking to ay is lot of people out there. he went to d.c. where he met with joe biden and nancy pelosi and john boehner. interest right now in estonia is behind the technolo

problem is estonia is part of nato. if he gets his teeth into estonia, it's entirely possible the nation will collapse. lou: general, i report dickens out of you, i have to say, though, when i hear folks talk about we're going to have to do something, if he takes on a nato nation, turkey's a nato nation, so what. i was talking with general jack keane the other night. nato just is a shell, as you say, an american operation, and it's a shell of what it might have been or what it was. i don't see anything in the world that could stop putin at all. you couldn't mobilize enough force to stop him if he acted right now. >> i agree, look, this is not a military problem, lou, this is a political problem. if you look at numbers, nato and the united states overwhelmed russia in terms of military power. air, sea, land, you name it. the russian military is just a caricature of a military. and just a little commitment by nato and the u.s., just a little strength in character, just a little devotion of military forces into these threa

when the ussr fell, estonia regained its freedom, and in 2004, it joined the european union.inn has modernized at an astounding rate since the fall of the soviet union. its business district shines with the same glass and steel gleam you'll find in any modern city. yet nearby are the rugged and fully intact medieval walls, and the town within these ramparts has a beautifully preserved old-world ambiance. among medieval cities in the north of europe, none are as well preserved as tallinn. the town hall square was a marketplace through the centuries. its fine old buildings are a reminder that tallinn was once an important medieval trading center. today it's a touristy scene, full of people just having fun. through the season, each midday, cruise-ship groups congest the center as they blitz the town in the care of local guides. like many tourist zones, tallinn's is a commercial gauntlet. here there's a hokey torture museum, strolling russian dolls, medieval theme restaurants complete with touts, and enthusiastic hawkers of ye olde taste treats. woman: [ laughs ] steves: but just

why your digital identity could be estonia or estonia. we'll be right back. r? something years now. thinking about what you want to do with your money? daughter: looking at options. what do you guys pay in fees? dad: i don't know exactly. daughter: if you're not happy do they have to pay you back? dad: it doesn't really work that way. daughter: you sure? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. there is no car because there was no accident. volvo's most advanced accident avoidance systems ever. the future of safety, from the company that has always brought you the future of safety. give the gift of volvo this season and we'll give you your first month's payment on us. ensure active heart health. i maximize good stuff, like my potassium and phytosterols which may help lower cholesterol. new ensure active heart health supports your heart and body so you stay active and strong. ensure, take life in. we're for an opens you internet for all.sing. we're for creating more innovation and competition.

in estonia. i will explain. >>> but first here is my take. ashton carter, the president's nominee to be the next defense secretary, is a brilliant man, but by far the best quality he has going for him is that he seems to understand the need to rein in a pentagon now so out of control that it is difficult to fully comprehend or even explain. the largest government bureaucracy in the world, the department of defense, even after billions of dollars in cuts, now spends about $600 billion a year when everything is added in. that's more than the entire gdp of poland. it employs 1.4 million men and women in uniform, 700,000 civilians, and another 700,000 full-time contractors. the pentagon's accounts are so vast and byzantine, it is probably impossible to do a thorough and honest audit of them. still, a recent government accountability office report made a valiant effort and concluded that the total budget overruns for current weapons systems stand at nearly $500 billion. the f-35 joint strike fighter p

food cutoffs, cyber attacks, in 2007, in estonia. they're on the front line, and i wish more countries in the rest of europe would follow their lead. >> peter, anything? time for one more question? one more question. this gentleman right here. >> lieutenant colonel -- defense fellow. i understand the information warfare and the new front that's been opened there. the harsh arrest is that you have a country that still has the largest combined strategic and tactical nuclear forces in the world. how do you feel given the modernizize going on within the strategic forces in russia, that how do you feel that putin views his nuclear forces and hough they will play out in the world in the mid-to long range? >> a few years ago you had the former chairman of their armed forces, threaten to use nuclear weapons preemptively if nato continued to enlarge 'the reaction in this city was, we've heard that before. let british off. remember in 2008, the night that barack obama won the u.s. election, then russian president dmitry medvedev threatened to

they include estonia latvia and bulgaria. soviet styled monuments are everywhere. in russay, bulgaria's fifth largest cemetery, a glimpse into shared legacy with moscow. in fact ties to eastern europe, a diaspora of russian speakers who have spread out over the region for centuries. liking ukraine, some feel an emboldened vladimir putin could use pro-russian groups in eastern europe to further destabilize the region. it's in enclaves like these where putin wields an outsized influence. >> translator: my personal opinion is that russia has started to get involved in ukraine only to help, without intentionally trying to pretty what happened in crimea. >> andrea is like many in ukraine that don't blame russia. >> translator: in my opinion the west won the cold war. and has since been trying to put russia in the corner. >> russia in the 1990s was a very weap weak and in many rments humiliated country and was not able to project force, was not able to defend its interests as as it saw them at the time. so when large numbers of former soviet satellites joined nato or the

they don't care about -- >> estonia. >> a couple people do, but most people don't care.the whole point is if they can find a narrative trick, a little informational provocation to, you know, undermine article 5, to show that 1991 transition was joke, that america is a paper tiger, then america's reputation is undermined. it's interesting. we are in a space of pure information war. but the consequences can be quite bad if american cents und undermine the way the russians want to. >> unfortunately for a long time, and you asked david the first question about is it a result of our -- that we didn't do anything seeing what was going on in russia, i think, yes, we are very improved from the policy of the previous bush administration. unfortunately, we are -- we were closing eyes on every thing that russia did in the last 15, 20 years. the first proxy war happened in -- then again georgia, now we have ukraine. but we didn't do -- we didn't do anything back then because we thought, okay, something going on in that part of the world, it just -- the soviet union just broke up, no

people use in georgia against estonia. those do not reach the level of what we understand or warfare to be or warfare in general. stuxnet would really qualify as the first digital weapon and an example of cyber warfare attack. >> we often hear from generals that article warfare is the new frontier. how threatened are we here in the united states by that? >> well, we are very vulnerable. any country that is connected in the way the u.s. is that relies on computer systems for critical infrastructure, altra critical infrastructure is working on computers. what stuxnet showed what this was an attack that happened on computers that was not connected to the internet. they had to spread it on a u.s. flash drive. you haves that even if sensitive systems from the internet, there will be a way to get onto your system and destroy it. that unclear to the extent there are a lot of estimates of cyber pearl harbor that would happen in the u.s. nobody knows the full capacity of what can happen because we do not know how things are connect

estonia had taken down some soviet war memorials that the russians regard as their gift to estonia alongerybody to siberia. to punish them, the russians shut down the estonia state much in the way that you've seen here. to understand, this is not the kind of thing done by rogue states by outlie rs in the national system. this is the future of international great power conflict and not just something done by odd ball nations. >> what's going to stop -- victor cha, what is going to stop them? what would be proportional u.s. response be that would convince north korea this is not a good idea? >> wolf, the direct proportional response would be some sort of retaliation but we would never know about that. that would not be in the public realm. i think there will be an fbi investigation, a criminal indictment against the individuals. i think there will be a ramping up of the bilateral cooperative talks with regions and in particular korea and japan. we don't have a cyberdiscussion with china but these attacks could happen as well and may be an opportunity for china and the u.s. to have a dialog

they went into estonia, captured a guy, took him back to russia. does any american know about that? thanks cold war stuff. anyway. i believe that it would be a workable agreement if somehow we had the belief that vladimir would get out of the ukraine including crimea. >> thank you. now let me turn to the audience for some questions. you on the end there. yes, you. >> thank you, senator mccain. i may ukrainian journalist. having spent a few weeks in the battle zone in real life, ukrainian soldiers put more hopes on your decision than in our own president. i have a few remarks. the eu mentioned 4000 ukrainian soldiers killed. that's not correct. to my data it's at least two times more. it's a full-scale invasion. >> first time a country in europe has dismembered another country since the end of world war ii, yes. >> in my cell phone, i have more evidence is of russian invasion in eastern ukraine than probably the entire russian embassy here in the united states. i have a couple questions. the first is global and the second is regional. i understand there are some political issues, but

this time he is in europe starting off in estonia.n you look at this one quick shot of his feet on the pedals and hands on the wheels, you think it would be brutal. he is completely finessing all three pedals. he's able to make this car do things it wasn't designed to do in the first place. >> it's amazing many he is getting an inch from the wall. that is unreal. >>> it's got ls-3. one of the coolest looking s-13s i've ever driven. >> this is a competition he is involved in. makes his way through the early rounds. ryan gets too anxious. bumps into his competitor and continues racing. and makes his way to the top of the podium. winning top spot. then it's off to latvia. ryan is just a lot of fun to watch in the cockpit. watching him work all the controls. >> for all of us who want to write a christmas song, this is how you do it. >> there's the sentimental, upbeat and sexy. i will attempt the first time in history to combine all three to make the ultimate you will hit christmas pop song. we need a hook that is melancholy and evocative.

even sophisticated traders in london don't know where estonia is.ve to be part of this union in order for people to take them seriously. >> and in the case of lithuania, one thing that has worried a lot of lithuanians is what has been happening with russia and ukraine. lithuania try to join the eurozone in 2006 and its inflation was too high. back then, 30 1% wanted to join. now it is 53%. they have russia just across the border. quite that is not a lot, 53%. -- >> that is not a lot, 53%. >> no, it's not, but it is a big jump. and i think it's due in part to what is going on ukraine. >> and in europe, we look at it as this disaster, but to live they when he and, it is one more sign they are members of the west. -- but to lithuania, it is one more sign they are members of the west. >> being closer to the west than the east has got to be a good thing for them. >> willem marx. and we also thank our guest host for the hour, could you reading editor bill -- contributing editor bill cohan. >> coming up, new map behind alimony fight between harold hand and

hat with the united states do if estonia asks us and invokes article five, what would the u.s. do? what with the president do? when he be consistent? would he back away from it? i do not know. it all goes back to the president that lyndon johnson set. war andther side of the i was struck in reading or in the short timeframe between nixon and resignation, who wanted peace for honor the lucky one it and the collapse of , it is a fool's error to as a hypothetical question. have comeietnam war out any different? >> a good hypothetical. my gut feeling is that it would've ended pretty much the way it did. reason, weerpowering tend to look upon the vietnam war and i been talking about it as an american exercise, it was a north vietnamese exercise, too. they were driven by a powerful sense of nationalism. they wanted all of vietnam to be united. -- they wanted it united asked -- as vietnam. it happened to be run by shrewd, unscrupulous communist leaders who were determined not matter what the cost is a north vietnamese paid a tremendous cost -- price rather. they were going to get their wa

there will be increased conflict in europe and added think james is right, estonia's neck.ou will see a very roiling world in the sense of conflicts around the -- >> i disagree that this is going to be a big fight within the party but i think if you have actually bought the statements of rand paul over the past year, he's been all over the place. >> he's evolving. >> he's evolving as he says. [laughter] >> look, at the end of the day, at the end of the day the republican part is the part of national security hawks. it is india's realize that. if you follow his public statements on isis over literally the week that first journalist was beheaded him it was like night and day. he had to tune his views. he did a complete 180. personally i think rand paul is very similar to his father in his world outlook, but he's a lot smarter than understanding that he can't let the freak flag fly all the time if he wants to be president of the united states. and so i really think that this kind of rand paul, he is hired some sensibly mainstreamed advisors like richard birch, you worked with,

i am -- i was in estonia the couple at couple of weeks ago.a real possibility that you could have a crimea type situation in estonia where there is no russian soldier going and, literally a handful of russian special operations forces taking over a government building. all you would need was to have the government invoke article five which mandates an attack on one is an attack on all and of the portuguese and spanish say we don't consider this an invasion. the most successful international security alliance of the world would be destroyed in one simple step. and the middle east what happens when you leave allies to there own devices? no one believes president obama when he says that people prevent the iranians from getting a nuclear weapon, certainly not after the red line was announced and then promptly ignored. the saudi's will have pretty much say openly they we will develop there own nuclear program. you now have a rather remarkable alliance with israel and egypt and jordan and saudi arabia and the sunni arab status quo powers basically t

they went into estonia, captured a guy, took him back to russia. does any american know about that?ks cold war stuff. anyway. i believe that it would be a workable agreement if somehow e had the belief that vladimir would get out of the ukraine including crimea. >> thank you. now let me turn to the audience or some questions. you on the end there. yes, you. >> thank you, senator mccain. i may ukrainian journalist. having spent a few weeks in the battle zone in real life, ukrainian soldiers put more hopes on your decision than in our own president. i have a few remarks. the eu mentioned 4000 ukrainian soldiers killed. that's not correct. to my data it's at least two times more. t's a full-scale invasion. >> first time a country in europe has dismembered another country since the end of world war ii, yes. >> in my cell phone, i have ore evidence is of russian invasion in eastern ukraine than probably the entire russian embassy here in the united states. i have a couple questions. the first is global and the second is regional. i understand there are some political issues, but do repub

rating agencies -- another advantage they will have, they will be joining the same currency union with estoniavia. those countries have already joined the euro. he did express concern about what is happening with the ruble in russia. impact, and a weakening of russian currency, is aning of demand objective reason for difficulties in trade relations. of course, we are all in favor of normalizing both political and economic issues associated with all these geopolitical tensions of the last year. expense ofthe violation of international law. , he did dampen growth expectations for 2015. it won't be 3.4%. more in the 2.7% growth. that will be on the upper end of the eurozone, now with 19 countries using the euro. will be the effect of lithuania joining the euro on the ecb in frankfurt? >> there is going to be a little bit on the governing council, some changes. you take the five biggest economies, they will now share four seats and they will have to rotate. the smallest economies, 14, they will share 11 seats. germany will now skip one every five votes. >> thanks a lot. on the cause our internatio

in estonia there was a group of legal experts from the u.s. and from other countries who looked into what are the laws of warfare in relation to digital warfare and whether or not they still apply or whether we need new laws. and they've come out with a huge volume examining that to sort of assist the nato countries in defining rules of engagement and developing their cyber warfare programs. i don't think we fully have all the answers. i think the u.s. began developing its rules of engagement around 2011-2012, and we're further along than we were when stuxnet was unleashed and discovered, but i think that there's still a lot of questions that we as a society have to answer about how this, how we're going to conduct warfare in this manner. >> host: are there political, is there political opposition to some cyber warfare by the u.s.? >> guest: the political opposition in the u.s. to cyber warfare? >> host: right. specifically in congress or perhaps the administration. >> guest: there has been very little discussion in congress, on capitol hill a

we saw it in estonia and other countries. kyung lah, thank you. we appreciate your insights. >>> hollywood is reacting with fear to the cyber attack on sony pictures. for many at least, disappointment that sony has made the decision to withdraw "the interview." rob lowe tweeted, wow, everyone caved. the hackers won. ben stiller wrote, hard to believe this is the response to the threat to freedom of expression here in america. and the rock here with the interview. >> this whole thing is scary, man. e-mails and your private stuff. the whole town is scared. >> sony says it has no plans to distribute the $40 million film in theaters or home video. >>> president obama squeezes in the annual end of the year conference before he heads off to christmas vacation. insiders say he will field a topic of questions on immigration and his historic move to restore relations with cuba and the senate cia torture report and the hack against sony among other issues. >>> the white house is leaving the door off for a possible future visit to the u.s. by cuban president

continues to threaten without reservation ukraine, h estonia, are sitting there waiting to be his nextand, still, we haven't seen any shift, any change, any strategic response from this administration. >> that's the biggest problem of all. where are we going from here? where do we want to be five years from now? it's all the headline of the day, how do we get over that one. russia, we've slapped sanctions on russia for you will all the terrible things they've done. lower gas prices has had the biggest effect. they're in trouble. they're not meeting payroll because of that. lou: let me ask you, ralph, is it coincidental that iran has carried out jet fighter strikes against isis, that israel has carried out strikes against surface to air missile supplies and parts in syria, and that the saudis are continuing to drive oil prices down? this looks suspiciously coordinated and to what end? >> well, it's certainly coordinated, but on multiple sides. the saudis are certainly driving oil prices down. partly because of their threat from us shale gas and oil. but largely because it's a way to get

but the president's trip to estonia in september he used incorrect facts in his speeches. over the news in europe and russia and the baltic states. we didn't cover it at all here in the united states. but it was -- it was pretty embarrassing stuff. >> but the golf thing is what perpetually comes back as a bad image thing. presidents elect deal with this. but not i think in recent memories to this degree with this president. and whether he's golfing shortly after the word of the decapitations of american hostages, it always looks in bad form. you would think his people would say this doesn't look good. >> you would think. >> but they're not doing that. >> no. >> and i'm wondering if that is really hurting him now that it piles up when these types of incidents occur. >> i think it is. the perception is that president's staff doesn't appreciate how the president is being perceived. it wouldn't happen under michael deaver or a joe canzari or steve studdard or leon panetta. ultimately the president is responsible for his own staff. >> do we note president was told about this. t

he has interest in moldova, estonia, and frankly everyone is sitting there holding their breath who knows anything and is paying any attention at all to putin's ambitions. >> you know, i would disagree with you. i wouldn't call him an idiot. lou: no, no, i was being sarcastic. >> he is a savage, and, you know, president obama made the statement that while putin is improvising himself into a nationalist corner. no! putin has a strategic plan. putin thinks decades ahead. obama is the guy from the improv. it's prophetic, you referenced the major military buildup in eastern ukraine, russian troops nakedly crossing the border into eastern ukraine. why we cannot know for certain what's in putin's mind. the russians like to do things over the christmas holidays, i would not be surprised if putin makes next military move grabbing a big chunk of ukraine over the holidays. we'll see, hope not. lou: and the reality here is that perhaps putin is exploiting what turns out to be at least a misunderstood possibility of weakness. that is the european union in seeking to consolidate has basically disenfra

he continues to threaten without reservation ukraine, estonia, moldava are sitting there waiting to beproject. and still we haven't seen any shift, any change, any strategic response from this administration. >> yeah, and i think that's the biggest problem of all. there's no sense of strategic planning. where are we going from here, where do we want to be in six months or a year from now, five years from now? it's all let's deal with the headline of the day, how do we get over that one. yet if i look at something like russia, the administration says we slapped sanctions on the russians for all the terrible things they have done. you know what's had the biggest effect on putin and on russia? lower gas prices. lower oil prices. they're in trouble. they're not meeting payroll because of that. >> let me ask you, ralph. is it coincidental that iran has carried out jet fighter strikes against isis, that israel has carried out strikes against surface-to-air missile supplies and parts in syria, and that the saudis are continuing to drive oil prices down. this looks suspiciously coordinated and

like russia versus estonia in 2007. you never see the united states go up against botswana. you're seeing it during an existing national crises. for ones like this, like some of the other ones we've been seeing lately they're so confusing because it's been a bad attack on a company, but not that bad of an attack on a country. in terms of america's capableties when it comes to cyber security and, indeed, cyber warfare. the cyber command within the military, is that, in a sense, a defensive organization that's about hardening governmental targets or even america commercial tar gets? or is that part of our military that is doing defensive work. >> no, they are not just defensive. our cyber leaders are quite proud about their offensive capableties. one of the previous chairman wanted to get out there and brag so it might deter futures. i don't think many countries will dwout our prowess. but they're the north koreans. what is there to shoot at? if the attack were still going, we could at least counter attack and try to make it stop. but what can you do now? i don't think there's

russia attacked estonia and iran attacked we saudi arabia why and clearly a destruction on the company that there destroyed 30,000 computers. we kept warning, those who have been paying, this is coming to the united states. probably sooner rather than later. what we saw was a nation state who engaged in trying to destroy an american company and took it to the broader level of using lets of violence in order to get their political will. this was a nation state attack on the united states and saying aloaha and getting on a plane to hawaii is not the way to go. >> here is what he said. >> they caused a lot of damage. we will respond. we will respond proportionally. we will respond in a place and time and manner we choose. >> how tough should he get with north korea? >> unfortunately, he has laid out the playbook before we have done anything. the press young should have been here are the actions we took on north korean actions and he is what we will continue to do. right now, trust me, our intelligence services, the folks who are responsible for at least the first wave of trying to make su

like russia versus estonia in 2007. or russia against georgia in 2008. never see philippines go up against botswana. you are seeing it during existing national security crises. for the most damaging ones. for ones like this, like sony, like some of the other ones we've been seeing, they are so confusing because they aren't all that damaging. nobody has died. it's been a bad attack on a company, but not that bad an attack on a country. >> in terms of america's capabilities in this type of -- i want to call it even conflict. i'm not sure. in terms of america's capabilities when it comes to cybersecurity and cyberwarfare. the united states cybercommand was in the military. is that essentially a defensive organization that's about hardening american targets, either governmental, military or even american commercial targets. or is that part of our military that is doing offensive work to screw up other countries essentially by hacking in the name of the u.s. military? >> no, no, no, they are not just defensive. and our cyberleaders are quite proud about their

russia attacked estonia. iran attacked saudi arabia. clearly a destruction on the saudi arabia, destroyed 30,000 computers, wiped and destroyed data. we kept warning, those that have been paying attention to this, this is coming to the united states. probably sooner than later. what you saw awas a nation state who engaged in trying to really destroy an american company and then took it to the broader level of using threats of violence in order to get their political will. this was a nation state attack on the united states and saying aloha and get, on an airplane and going to hawaii is not the answer the world needs. >> the president promises there will be consequences. >> they caused a lot of damage. we will respond. we will respond proportionally and we'll respond in a place and time and manner we choose. >> so, how tough should he get with north korea? >> unfortunately, he's laid out a little of the playbook before we've done anything. that press conference should have been, here's the actions we took on north korea's action and here

>> that could be true for estonia, latvia. that could be true for others. you know putin did this in , georgia, in moldova. it is interesting to see the moldova elections that just took place. which overwhelmingly went for those who want to look westward. i think that, for so long as you do not have offensive weapons along what is the eastern europe part assigned to europe, than russia is in a position -- if you put offensive weapons, that changes the dynamics. for so long, all you are talking about is a defensive possibility, i'm not sure why that evokes putin's actions. and well before any real discussions of nato, the conversation was about ukraine looking towards european union. more than nato. and so i think that for putin and his eurasian view, his new russia view, ukraine is an essential element. it is not about its defense or concern about security. it is the concern about this new russia. without ukraine, it is difficult to envision that new russia. i do not think it was a mistake to enter those negotiations. and i don't know which one of us is wil

wife is from estonia. it is 20 years now. they are more poor than they used to be.ple are very poor. the mother of my wife, she is getting pension of 200 euro per month. that is a pension. the finland pension would get ,000 euro. why the difference in the pension wages? it is a dream. they think once that become part of europe, they will reach better -- >> i think it is fair to say there are a whole lot of people who don't agree with his views. pretty interesting and provocative guy. given what is the kremlin's view of their policy in the ukraine and the former soviet union that is now independent. you can watch the full interview. it will be on bloomberg television over the holidays. he might great -- have been -- he might have done a bit of swearing. >> ryan chilcote. there you go. at ryan chilcote tv. there you go. oming up, an instant replay. the c.e.o. joins us to explain what is driving the revival. ♪ >> welcome back to "the pulse" live from london on bloomberg tv. polaroid cameras, every family had one. when digital cameras hit the stores, polaroid cameras hi

being in the same currency as estonia and latvia. all three baltic states will be using the euro.e to russia. he weighed in on the ruble and'the effects it may have on lithuania's economy. >> a weakening of russian currency. forbjective reason difficulties in trade relations in european countries, including lithuania and russia. >> you and ryan were talking about the ruble. up on the day, almost back to levels of the december. maybe we should have a buckwheat index. one final note on the lithuanian economy, he dampened expectations. was 3.4, that was the expectation for growth. he dialed back down to about 2.7 or 2.9. table be the 19th state using the euro. if you have any excess currency underneath europe hello, time to hand it in. your pillow,eath hand it in. going to have an impact on the way the ecb operates. >> once you get above 18 members, you have a rotating system for all the bonus banks, the regional banks on the governing council. what that means for the bundesbank in germany, 4 out of every 5 times they will have voting rights. they take the five biggest economies and

>> estonia. > australia?t used to be a gem of the kind of boring to watch even if -- it used to be a gentleman's game and kind of boring to watch, but they are trying to turn it into formula one. they are really big on what they call stadium sailing. >> i'm glad you brought this up. i can't believe i'm saying this. i remember when it was a gentleman sport and it was boring as all get out. how desperate are they right fascinating, to be clear, if you are doing it. it is boring to watch. in the late 80's and 90's, there were a lot of boring legal shenanigans about where it would be held and what kind of boats they would be used -- using. and people were creatively interpreting the charter of the original cup. but now they are trying to make the both consistent and exciting and fast and they have shorter courses about which we've more passing. >> out of the traditionalists look at this? and i would say that sailing maybe only eclipses golf in terms of people holding onto the tradition. >> i have an expert who co

estonia has been swedish, german, russia, then it was swedish again. what's interesting about this nato choice, the vote -- and by the way, overmajority of the parliament voted in favor of can sthelling status. we're also seeing within europe, western europe, we're seeing the balance of power shift east. you have a fight between poland and germany over whether this is a good thing. >> absolutely. and this is a question for all the big nato members, the traditional ones, they don't want ukraine in. but the problem is ukraine asked for nato membership, do they have to begin negotiations, and what does that do in terms of the russian position? >> what's happening now is that you have the same thing happening within nato that you have happening within the european union, which countries like poland are raising their hands and saying we don't want to be junior members anymore. we are members. the balance of power is shifting towards us. >> give us a clinic the difference between our oil analysis and natural gas analysis when we see that ukraine cuts off pow

in an interview with a german newspaper, the head of estonia central bank says the move would be, quote, very borderline. hanson suggested the ecb could end up illegally financing member states. still with us, abi muiji. does this concern you that we're starting to see mixed opinions on whether or not in fact we will see that additional quantitative easing in early 2015? >> it doesn't sprieft me. i think the surprise will be they come out all lined up with some sort of concerns on qe. but i think this problem with the easing can be policy measure. and i can in line with my expectation, we all expect -- eventually do some form of qe. >> do you think we're going to be looking at central pinification of the eurozone? >> outside deflation on the eurozone levels will send out the -- several members states are saying -- the question is what will the ecb do about it? the problem with hindsight is that it's not doing enough. >> a quick question, actually, on greece because we just -- with var your leaders about the election and the results and what that could do to the economy if deemus does no

that could be true for estonia and latvia. putin did this in georgia. he did it in muldova. you know, i think that for so long as you do not have offensive weapons along what is the eastern europe side assigned to europe. if you put offensive weapons, that changed the dynamics for russia. but so long as you're talking about a defensive possibility, i'm not quite sure why that evokes, you know, putin's as. and so i think that for putin and his eurasia view and his russia view, ukraine is an essential element to them. it is not about defense or con sirn. i don't think it was a mistake to enter those negotiations. and i don't know which one of us is willing to suppress the also pragss of're people for the same reasons that we enjoy them in the united states. >> fascinating discussion. thank you for joining us. [ applause ] >>> welcome to the defense committee on the situation of iraq and syria and a threat posed by the islamic state. a big welcome to our guests. an apology, firstly, to the general because his name tag is not included. so we apologize and thank you for coming. >

in estonia a group of experts from the united states and other countries looked into the laws of warfare in relation to digital warfare and if they apply or if we need new laws. they came out with a volume examining that to assist in nato countries in defining in rules of engagement and developing the cyberwarfare program. i don't think we fully have all of the answers. i think the united states began developing the rules of engagement around 2011-20112 and we are further along with stuxnet was released and discovered but i think there is still a lot of questions that we as a society have to answer about how we will conduct warfare in this manner. >> host: are there political -- is there political opposition to some cyberwarfare by the united states? >> guest: in cyberwarfare? >> host: right. in congress or whatnot. >> guest: there is little talk the whitehouse has never admitted to such. reports were classified so we are just getting a peek at this. the government never wanted to go on record acknowledging it was developing these capabilities. and as a result of that, we have not had th