for the etf lifecycle where we run through the three main stages of etf's.filing, vanguard registered seven factor funds to begin trading in the first quarter of 2018. the funds come with the firm's signature low fees, undercutting competition. a programming note, we will speak with vanguard founder next week. then you have the launch, the jpmorgan event etf will package a traditional hedge fund strategy. it goes by the ticker jped. event driven funds speculate on potential events like bankruptcies and m&a. those etf that don't get enough interest, the final stages liquidation. the restaurant leaders fund closed last month just shy of its first birthday. it invested in the restaurant industry and failed to attract enough assets to be cost efficient for its provider. the goal is to avoid liquidation. a critical part of the lifecycle is how a new etf finds traction. that is where mark esposito, founder and ceo of esposito securities comes in. thank you for being here. >> thank you. scarlet: you provide seed capital to new etf's, kind of like a venture capitali

one is the tax reform etf play?nd how the surgeon e-commerce is benefiting the timber and for street etf. etf,er you embrace or fear there is no getting around their influence. our expert is here to get us started with a snapshot. >> you mentioned the fed and rates. this is a big deal, it has had a big effect on etf flows. we have seen what has gone on the bottom side of things, but we have seen other etf flows. in particular sectors. you would think tech would be number one, that it is real estate. the yield is 5%, 6%, so the thirst for yield has pushed money into interesting places. our etf's taking over the world? sectors, itat the is way more owned by passive than other sectors. .5% of real estate etf are owned by passive funds, that is very high. estate etf'sl are owned by passive funds, very high. this company, almost 40% is owned as passive. if we continue to see rates staying low, some of these will be majority owned by passive funds, and if rates rise, look out. extra selling pressure. scarlet: just a matte

this is "bloomberg etf iq."here we focus on the access, risks, and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. ♪ scarlet: the republicans' long-awaited tax cut has the dow jones etf taking in cash like it is november 2016. and bitcoin etf filings, we look at what regulators want to see. bullish on china and the internet. put them together, you get paidweb. we look at one of the best-performing china etf's this year. whether you embrace or fear etf's, there is no getting around their influence. of course, we want to bring in eric balchunas now to get a sense of where the money is coming and going. eric: you brought it up, it is dÉjÀ vu all over again when it comes to etf flows. december flows going from 2 billion a day to 3 billion a day. institutions have gotten back in the market because of tax reform. i can tell by the products they are using. a ton of flows. a lot of hot money excited. it is really dia that seals the deal. when we look at dia's historical flows, the last time we saw flows like this was right af

capitalist for etf.ur role. mark: we are a broker-dealer. we have gotten calls from clients on etf's to bring to the market. and to help grow the industry overall. that's what we provide, you need products and services and where the big firms have left off. scarlet: do you take the place of a market maker? mark: indirectly. sometimes we do that when there is not a lead market maker, and there have in more and more cases with no lead market maker in etf space. scarlet: if you look at the back drop, we see a pick up on etf closures. it is an interesting time. why is seed capital drying up when there is more than one new etf launching every day in the u.s. and more than three a day globally. mark: i think there are many reasons for that. one is the cost to seed is expensive. it takes a lot of capital on the balance sheet. i think competitors have made a conscious choice to back out of the space and leave, and therefore that has played into our hands well, we can grow the etf space with new and existing issu

you can check scarlet fu talking all about etf's on bloomberg "etf iq." ♪ retail. pressure like never before. and it's connected technology that's moving companies forward fast. e-commerce. real time inventory. virtual changing rooms. that's why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent network speed across multiple locations. every corporate office, warehouse and store near or far covered. leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered. comcast business outmaneuver. vonnie: live from bloomberg world headquarters in new york, i am vonnie quinn. live from bloomberg's new european headquarters in the city of london, i am mark barton. this is bloomberg markets. emma chandra has more from new york. economy added more jobs than expected last month. payrolls rose by 228,000 in november, and the unemployment rate remains at 1.4%, almost a 17-year low. still, wages increased less than forecast. the u.s.ember of congress is resigning over allegations of inappropriate behavior. republican congressman trent franks of arizona says he will quit at t

set.t me ask about etf he mentioned the bitcoin etf that there is a mere etf to go along with it, and short bitcoin etf, which might get just as much interest. >> exactly. it is not a question, do people want to short bitcoin, which you can do now through interactive brokers. we do not have a short bitcoin etf just yet. we have not seen those come to market yet. >> what is next on looking at theto suss out -- what are keywords people are looking at? >> going into the new year, we will closely watch what the future prices do. so we are in the nation stages. he watched consumer prices to see what could be next. looking out for what the fcc might prove in the future, a bitcoin etf. classes someone looking at a stock like this and saying, hang on a second, let's look at what -- business actually does is and just ordinary retailers which could be a problem here. >> one of the quirky aspects is the exchanges for bitcoin itself are not regulated by any central body. for an investor getting involved in owning underlying bitcoin, it is a tricky area. you have to proceed with caution and have a

there is a tax reform etf that is not one of the big ones. it is taxr. it is the tax reform etf.surged way past the ticker on tax reform optimism. abigail: one of the big stories this entire year, but certainly this week -- we have to move to bitcoin. u.s. regulators have approved bitcoin will be trading on the cme starting december 18. what does this mean for etf's? eric: a couple things. there is a lot of etf's currently in registration with approval., awaiting it is like a race. whoever gets up first will get the lion's share of assets. first to market is crucial. i think it will be the winkle twins.ins -- winkelvoss he think it will be rex or van -ek. abigail: this is digitally back? eric: he thinks the s.e.c. might approve one that track futures first. which everyone gets out first could be a billion-dollar product within a couple weeks. abigail: within a couple weeks, you think that will happen. eric: there is an etn in sweden that is almost at a billion dollars. $1 billion in sweden, you could get five or 10 in the u.s. pretty easily. abigail: we will be watching those for

we have some of the etf's file here.ernative harvest, a lot of them don't use pot, they use more classy names. we've got the cambria marijuana industry with the agriculture etf. and then the marijuana supply chain etf. pot is also up tremendously. i like coke as the ticker. eric: tickers with verbs usually do better, so that's good for them there. could be a $1 billion product. how manywonder companies are publicly traded that are involved in the growing marijuana industry. good question. when you put together a new budding industry, if you will, you will have to put in more liquid names to offset the fact that some of these are micro caps. but there's one in canada that has some big companies and some small ones. let's put it up right now. there we go. jonathan: this is why i think this -- eric: this is why i think it will be a big deal in the u.s.. it's up something like 70% this year. if it were not for bitcoin, this would be a bigger story. see how the assets hung in there, even when it fell? this is a high demand, s

join us for bloomberg etf iq, the show solely focused on etf's. catch it on wednesday it 12:30.ulie: and this would be a frequent one on the show i would think. there are something like a dozen filingsifferent related to blockchain, bitcoin, futures, underlying. scarlet: but as kathleen said, the sec needs to see a track record more in the futures market before they make a deliberation. once it happens, it could happen quickly. once they approved the first one, it could be like boom, boom, boom after the filings come in. julie: and eric seems to think twins'e winklevoss exchange could be the first one approved. kathleen seems to think a link to the futures is more likely because they have the underlying regulated market. scarlet: that is what gives the sec pause. it is an underlying unregulated market. julie: the market structure is all -- we make it up as we go along. scarlet: we are. it is exciting, but risky perhaps for investors. julie: perhaps. it is time for the bloomberg business flash, a look at some of the biggest stories in the news right now. an initial public offerin

the etf riding the bitcoin wave to the best performance of all etf's this year and 81% returns.vesting a great again, president trump's pledge that inspired an etf outperforming the s&p 500.

this is bloomberg "etf iq."on the asset-backed, risks, and rewards offered by exchange-traded funds. ♪ scarlet: we speak with the father of index funds, vanguard founder jack vogel, on whether passive is helping to inflate a stock market bubble. the actively-managed etf that is riding the bitcoin wave to the best performance of all etf's this year, an 81% return. and making investing great again -- president trump's pledge that inspired an etf outperforming the s&p 500.

he is up 10%, and a lot of value etf's are up 5%. there are three categories of value etf.tuff that west does and -- and is i will buy small stocks and be happy with it. and you can use frozen juice concentrate. add moree can, and i water to it, which means other companies will have evaluated value-weighted etf. they are trying to make this more palatable to advisors so it underperforms lesson those hard years. scarlet: so less value than the hard-core qval etf's. eric: and then there is the third level, almost beta, itv. these are the biggest ones, and they are barely value. like someone's wrinkled -- someone sprinkled a little value that orange- threw concentrate into it so it is barely orange, and that is what people like. people do not want to have performance that deviates that much from the market. some of these products are designed for investors, not for true value investing. put it, as wes gray they need tesla fortitude, and he does as well. eric, thank you so much. julia: let's get an update on where marco rubio stands on the tax overhaul. the florida senator says

and several etfs obviously van wolfswinkelvoss etfs as well as pro shares etf, they are much more widespread than these gentlemen. >> you had to think that this was coming as well. >> you have a quick thought? >> you can play it by owning cme. that's another -- it's a stock we own, and they are in the bitcoin business. >> the u.s. ten your is hitting its highest level, the yield is since march. jackie deangelis and the futures now crew standing by for more of an interesting story over the last couple of days. >> that's right, and good afternoon to you, scott. the yield on the ten-year treasury rising to its highest level since march. jeff kilberg, let's go to you. closing in just off the session highs. what are you making of this move >> broke out of the range and certainly this is based upon the confidence of this historic tax reform coming through. for a long time quantitative easing or monetary policy has been pumping up growth and expectation and now we have fiscal policy to help the expectation of growth and expectations for 2018. but if equities decide to pull become the first part of

the actively managed etf riding the bitcoin wave to the best performance of all etf's this year and 81%king investing a great great agai

etf's are also in registration, as is one in canada. structurebased etf analysts say, has a better approval.win is this becoming a more mainstream method of currency? more: it is becoming mainstream, and it is the currency usage versus the investable asset usage. will find wildly divergent views on this. there are people who argue that it has failed as a currency for technical reasons and because there has not been a lot of uptake. you can look globally and will ae areas, countries with monetary or currency policy is challenging, so in the journal recently, there was an argument about how venezuelans are using bitcoin to pay for necessities, because their currency is so volatile and devalued. when we talk about how mainstream it is, the challenge is to sort of acknowledge that it is a value and the use cases will vary depending on the circumstances. right, a call from new york on our independent line. whether it is bitcoin or any other coin, it is important to save for retirement. what is equally important is doing things that bernie sa

they can be more than the market we have value oriented etfs, quality oriented etfs, low volatility etfs where we're seeing the growth, not just in big broad market indexes but also really in more granular precise outcomes that allow people to control the risk return profiles they're taking i really don't think you're going to see a world where there's necessarily market go down etf bad i see a world where people are using etfs in more precise ways to get risk return allocations iptheir portfolios >> those who might argue that sector correlation coming down from 90% a few years ago to close to 50% now is not a bearish picture for the industry >> no, i really don't think it is i think if you look at average correlations across all sorts of asset classes, even before the advent of etfss and indexing, a lot of the average correlations were higher. the reason you see a lot of that is because of central bank activity in market forces. it's not because of etfs >> in terms of cost for the consumer when it comes to active management, is there a call from black rock to say perhaps active managers

this is bloomberg "etf iq."isks, and rewards offered by exchange-traded funds. ♪ scarlet: we speak with the father of index funds, vanguard founder jack vogel, on whether passive is helping to inflate a stock market bubble. the actively-managed etf that is riding the bitcoin wave to the best performance of all etf's this year, an 81% return. and making investing great again -- pre t

they include a mutual fund and two etfs. this is his first time on the program. greg lucan, greg, good to have you with us, welcome. why three separate etfs and funds here? can't you get it >> thanks, tyler. and many people do. one of the advantages of using several different positions is the differences in company and country weightings. so you see pretty sizable differences between the way they weight the different countries inside that, which makes a sizable difference in the results that they get. >> so these funds and etfs we're about to talk to do different things different ways, have different exposures. let's start with, i believe the ticker is demix, delaware emerging markets fund institutional. do you like it? >> because the costs are reasonable. the country allocatio have worked. and we think they will continue to work. they have a lot of exposure in the pacific rim. and it continues to deliver. >> up 40% on the year, i would say that's delivering. i think the next one is f.e.m., first trust alpha dex etf. why do you like that one? >> first trust uses

whether you embrace or fear etf,

this is "bloomberg etf iq."e focus on the access, risks, and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. long-awaitedns' tax cut has the dow jones etf kicking in cash. ttip filings, we look at what regulators want to seen -- bitcoin etf filings. the list on china and on the internet.

we also have a partnership to have a full range of etf's, some of them are proprietary etf's, some ofe not. so our goal is to have everything that someone could reasonably want on our platform, and make it available to them in a way that is the most value -added. david: you mentioned low fees and good service, but what do you think investors mostly want? low fees, good service or high returns? abigail: everything. [laughter] they want all three and you better be doing more of every single one of those every year or you will find yourself , behind. because every year, i tell everybody because it is what i hear from our customers -- give me more, and give it to me for less money. david: who manages your money? does fidelity manage your money? does that person get nervous if the stock goes down because you are the ceo? they don't get nervous? [laughter] abigail: i think part of my role as the ceo is to also experience the company as a customer. so i do have a couple of our reps who work as a team, who call me several times a year and take me through the portfolio. we talk about what is g

blackrock has this huge etf business may have.one has hundreds of billions of dollars in money from institutions they have put to work. at some point you run out of greenfield in the industries. they are starting to move into each other's industries. goldman has this asset management arm they have had for quite a while. they are really putting investment into it and trying to build it up. they have started and etf business that is now challenging some of blackrock's products. they have a private equity business that moves into blackstone's business. and blackstone and blackrock have similar moves they are making into the others. it is interesting. over the next 10 years, we will see more of that. the question will be -- how does that change the landscape? ,hery: you mentioned etf's given the rise of passive investment, how does it fit into the investor playbook? >> yes, we have seen this huge rise in two passive and this huge flow of money into passive. there is a question about whether that trend will stay in place. goldman sachs

and the spdr consumer staples etf. very nice returns on those stocks and a little less so on the etf, but 5.25%, i'll take that any day, nancy. give me the ouk for 2018 and then we'll move quickly to your stocks. >> thank you for having me back, tyler. we're optimistic, bullish for the near medium term. but we would like to see a little bit of a correction. that was actually the reason i recommended the consumer staples etf. it's a hedge against a downturn. we think we'll see a 7 to 8% downturn or correction, and then we think stocks will take off again from there. >> let's go to something you like for 2018 and beyond, beginning with fedex which has made no bones about the fact that it sees a big benefit from this new tax law. >> absolutely, tyler. and they raised guidance prior to the tax bill passing. this is hands down the sector leader, the industry leader in ontime delivery and a big beneficiary of e-commerce. with e-commerce at 10% of sales, we think the growth rate is pretty robust. their target is to hit 10% pl

the etf riding the bitcoin wave to the best performance of all etf's this year and 81% returns.ng a great again, president trump's pledge that

side offered -- etf's are offered? victoria: i think the etf is maybe an easier aspect for them to jump into that but as they become more educated as to the process and you have to look at what is used in order to strain out these names. logically consistent approaches are what we pride ourselves on. i think people can use it in their individual portfolios instead of etf. julie: thank you so much for giving us your outlook for next year and some perspective on est investing. victoria -- esg investing. victoria fernandez is managing director in fixed income investment at crossmark global. >> -- dissolving nations parliament, a move that sets the stage for the new election as early as march. although minister says a campaign leading up to the national vote is imminent, it will not distract current lawmakers from doing their job. italians are aware that in the next few weeks, the spotlight will be focusing on the electoral campaign and is normal. i can guarantee that the government will not back down, continuing to carry

is claiming in the hedge fund etf space. there is value and deep

mark -- crazy etf, mark., vonnie? you have a while on that. vonnie: i'm not supposed to express any opinions, mark. the only thing i will expresses that dani should win. my chart is that the 705, relating to something neil -- is relating to something that neil was talking about. his is the dividends of the s&p 500 and white. it has gone down below the zero mark, and as you look at the pan-european government bond yield, this is a." and this is the japan government bond yields. that is 5705. mother ats told by my a very young age to never disagree with my coanchor. i will not. danny wins -- dani wins. vonnie: only now you're telling me, mark? i could've taken so much more advantage of that. cannot live without it. so if you can't live without it... why aren't you using this guy? it makes your wifi awesomely fast. no... still nope. now we're talking! it gets you wifi here, here, and here. it even lets you take a time out. no! no! yes! yes, indeed. amazing speed, coverage and control. all with an xfi gateway. fi

julie: this is "bloomberg etf iq." the assets, risks, and rewards offered by traded funds. ♪ julie: 2017 saw a record year of low volatility. as we look at 2018, our guest says it will be the year of the hedge. we talked to the man behind most recent vice etf. it focused on alcohol, cannabis, and tobacco. and we drill down into pbj, the etf that offers you a chance to invest in the food and beverage industry.

the top panel is the cumulative low volatility etf flows, very robust.e line has declined around 10 is where it is now. the bottom panel is realized correlation, the idea is the weaker the correlation among equities it means individual stocks outperform on a micro basis because they are not moved as much by the macro. in theory, this should be good for active managers as they can take advantage of stocks. i find these two panels counterintuitive and wonder how it will shake out and in talking to people in the industry, a fear they have that will cause the next crisis is the outflows of passive etf. if we see a huge move south, what does it do to the overall market? that has not been tested in a crisis. i find this dichotomy super fascinating. shery: good news for active managers. >> you would think but that is not how the market is reacting and you look at etf flows, that is not panning out. laura: i have, sticking with retail, dealing with bitcoin. the white line is bitcoin from 2012 until 2014 and the blue line is on a normalized basis through 2012 --

and bitcoin etf filings, we look at what regulators want to see. bullish on china and the internet.er, you get

this is "bloomberg etf iq.", and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. ♪ julie: 2017 saw a record year of low volatility. as we look at 2018, our guest says it will be the year of the hedge. plus, we talk to the man behind the most recent vice etf. it focuses on alcohol, cannabis, and tobacco. and we drill down into pbj, the etf that offers you a chance to invest in the food and beverage industry.

the -- the etf riding the bitcoin wave to the best performance of all etf's this year and 81% returns

this is "bloomberg etf iq."s on the access, risks, and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. ♪ scarlet: the republicans' long-awaited tax cut has the dow jones etf taking in cash like it is november 2016. and bitcoin etf filings, we look at what regulators want to see. bullish on china and the internet.

"power lunch" will be right back that's real etf innovation. flexshares. by investors, for investors. before investing consider the fund's investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. go to flexshares.com for a prospectus containing this information. read it carefully. yes or no?gin. do you want the same tools and seamless experience across web and tablet? do you want $4.95 commissions for stocks, $0.50 options contracts? $1.50 futures contracts? what about a dedicated service team of trading specialists? did you say yes? good, then it's time for power e*trade. the platform, price and service that gives you the edge you need. looks like we have a couple seconds left. let's do some card twirling twirling cards e*trade. the original place to invest online. looking from a fresh perspective can make all the difference. it can provide what we call an unlock: a realization that often reveals a better path forward. at wells fargo, it's our expertise in finding this kind of insight that has lead us to become one of the largest investment and wealth manageme

we have got the republican and democratic etf's.t ends, nobody knows. >> clearly not a fan of those etf's. catch our show each wednesday at 12:30 new york time in 5:30 in london. he is 88 years old and sharp as a knife. >> time for a look at some of the biggest business stories in the news right now. the competition continues to heat up. the dynamics between china's two biggest companies. >> they are competing in over a dozen sectors. always want to be more open with such competition. been focusing our business on two main areas only. digitaledia and content. we created an ecosystem with business partners in industries such as search and finance and so on. this is just to provide them with support and assistance rather than competing in the market. >> the story continues to resonate on wall street as a cautionary tale. before,nal challenges during, and after the ipo. still succeed with the listing. shares are trading down more than 6% since the stock went public. in the u.k., consolidation. they agreed to buy into properties in a de

this is "bloomberg etf iq."n the access, risks, and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. ♪ scarlet: the republicans' long-awaited tax cut has the dow jones etf kicking in cash. and bitcoin etf filings, we look at what regulators want to see. bullish on china and the internet. put them tog

the big one is the powershares buyback etf.t it does is, it looks for companies that have lowered their shares outstanding by 5% over the past year. it does that. it has 300 stocks in it. it is diversified, market cap weighted. it is a little pricey at 63 basis points. it is the biggest and most liquid. i will say when you look at this, it is kind of a trumpian portfolio. there are a lot of industrials, a lot of financials. consumer discretionary makes up almost the entire portfolio. there is very little tech. it is like the trump trade. it is cheap. it only has a pe of 18 because of that lack of tech. julie: but more expensive on the basis points you are paying for it. what about other buyback etf's? eric: spider has one that is interesting. they say, let's go narrow and fun. they do 100 stocks that have increased buybacks, and they equal rate them. it is like inserting a little hot sauce into the play. this is more volatile, but a bigger cake if it works. this has more tech, a little more diversified. i have to give credit to

is the etfs that are investing in bank loans.ou know, you get next-day liquidity if i sell my etf it takes a good day, two weeks to get cash for a bank loan. so this mismatch is going to, i think, exacerbate the selling pressures to the downside and could spark just a sudden spike up in risk premiums, especially in the areas of credit. >> are you at all worried about the yield curve inverting? lee cooperman brurkind of brusht off a few moments ago. maybe doesn't mean what it has in the past with rates. >> you know, i love ken rogoff's book "this time it's different." when i asked ken where did this title come from? he said it's always because everybody always justifies everything but this time it's different. the reality is it's probably not different. >> you don't think it's different? do you think it's going to happen and when do you think we'll go into recession if it does happen? >> our work shows that if the fed stays the course and we get five more rate cuts or rate increases by the end of 2018, the yield curve at that poin

with wall street behind the curve on etf jpmorgan is claiming in the hedge fund etf space.processes as the bull market continues? there is value and deep value. which explains why retailers make up trd

this is "bloomberg etf iq."on the assets, risks, and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. ♪ julie: 2017 saw a record year of low volatility. as we look at 2018, our guest says it will be the year of the hedge. plus, we talked to the man behind most recent vice etf. it focuses on alcohol, cannabis, and tobacco. and we drill down into pbj, the etf that offers you a chance to invest in the food and beverage

etf industry has something for those who lean red .highlight the first ever politically themed etf. the gop stock tracker etf -- maga is highly supportive of republican candidates. -- it has names such as deere and charles schwab attached. but tech companies are not. it has modestly outperformed the s&p 500, but the cost is not cheap at 65 basis points. trading politics. it shows you how adaptive and narrow etf investing has become. kevin: crossing the aisle. jerseyressman from new are making a bipartisan push to keep state and local tax deductions. this is bloomberg. ♪ kevin: this is "bloomberg markets: balance of power." shery: room for compromise. thismitch mcconnell said yestey he is open to tweaking the final republican tax bill to include state and local tax deductions. this has been one of the biggest sticking points. will it be enough to appease lawmakers? we are joined by two outspoken defenders of the deductions. republican congressman leonard lance, and democratic congressman josh gottheimer. seeing bipartisanship in any iss

this is "bloomberg etf iq."he assets, risks, and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. ♪ scarlet: as bitcoin goes mainstream, we speak with a team that claims to be the ishares of cryptofinance. with wall street behind the curve on etf, jpmorgan is claiming in the hedge fund etf space. what are the processes as the bull market continues? there is value and then deep value. which explains why retailers make up a third of -- we speak with the ceo of alpha architect.

on are tokyo stocks reporter the etf program from the boj, program.ve etf mark mcfarland the chief asian, do you agree it is time to wrap it up with the etf program? or later the boj has to wrap it up. is aast thing you want central bank owning half the equity market. it is not a good signal on capitalist principles in japan, but the boj policy generally if look at the quantitative and qualitative elements of its stimulus package, that is unlikely to change much and is still quite bullish. >> they can pull back and still be a stimulative central bank, right? >> absolutely. it is probably the most stimulative bank in the world at the moment and that is unlikely to change anytime soon. of japan andout the boj some commentary from governor kuroda and some of on its website research material, they are telling you the boj policy will not change much for the next 12 months. >> one more point on the etf before we move on, this is likely not going to be disruptive to the markets. as theyelieve the boj are looking at ways to scale this back are not going to make any missteps and they will be able

this is "bloomberg etf iq."s on the assets, risks, and rewards offered by exchange traded funds. ♪ scarlet: as bitcoin goes mainstream, we speak with a team that claims to be the ishares of cryptofinance. with wall street behind the curve on etf, jpmorgan is claiming in the hedge fund etf space. what are the processes as the bull market continues?

the bitcoin etf has been pushed back quite a ways since the s.e.c. forced everyone to retract their filings. but let's say we do get one of these funds. the premium will go to zero, but the demand for bitcoin will come back in strongly now, we can't own anything but gbtc to gain exposure so we don't have a choice here. >> aren't you afraid that tomorrow or the next day or the next day or sometime soon that will happen and that premium will collapse and your position will decline >> i think the offset will be the demand for the underlying bitcoin. we've seen this a few times already. as the futures have come in, as goldman has come in saying they may trade this, you've seen a natural floor. so we're in a 10,000 to 20,000 -- >> they have tried, the s.e.c. hasn't approved it yet. >> if it's a security we could. >> would you rather own that than this? >> it depends. >> or in addition to >> maybe in addition to, but i'll tell you there are more than 1,400 crypto assets out there. you know, there are a lot of governance issues out there so we would have to

the shutdown of the etf approval process was not a great thing.tting back to it in bringing new etf approvals at a pretty fast pace. contrast that with bitcoin, and you are talking about etf's holding assets that are more well-known even if they are somewhat esoteric compared to equity securities. david: well known is one way of putting it, but whether they exist is a different thing. secderstand how the regulates how you trade in something, but how do you regulate when there is no asset to check out. assets you can at least in theory check out. daniel: you think about the whole. sec regulation when it comes to these types -- whole theory when it comes to these types of products and what investors need to make smart choices, it is really hard. i am not want to advocate regulation. anyone that knows my body of work when i was a commissioner knows that i'm a free market got, but i think the commission is being appropriately cautious. when i was on the commission, there were a lot of pressures from a lot of corners for us to regulate bitcoin qua bito

blackrock has this huge etf business that they have. blackstone had hundreds of billions of dollars in money from institutions that they are put to work. but at some point, you run out of green field in those industries. what we are seeing is that they are starting to move into each other's industries. goldman has an asset management arm that there had for quite a while, but they are putting some investment into it and trying to build up. they've started an etf business that is challenging some of blackrock's products. and then blackstone and blackrock have similar moves. so it is interesting. over the next decade we will see more of that. and the question of course becomes, how does that change the landscape? >> check out my new favorite new function. you know it by now. tells you everything you need to know about the rising today. >> i just want to bring up a function that we use. this is fslo, 24 hours, all asset classes. you get a look at how the money s flowing. >> there are about 30,000 functions on the bloomberg. we enjoy showing