beginning our conversation eugene debs. yeah. what is valuable tow eugene debs today?t he argued for the late 19th and early 20th century were things like the right to organize, which he was callinor 30 years before the wagner that he was calling a system that would be something like what we have r security that he was calling for for a fairer distribution of wealth in the country. and i think as we look around america in years, you know, and especially in■economy, if you le overall numbers is people feel e it's not really working for them. i think you could say that over the pasteneration the fruits of our growth haven't ■á■;been broadu ly enough to counteract that feeling. the strike by the air traffic controllers in 1981, did that impact future labor unions or definitely. and that's a subject i actually wrote a book about called collision course and. it was a really, really important. ronald reagan wasxó president of the air traffic controllers were federal employees. they didn't have a right to strike, but they were so frustrated with their inability to get there.

you beginning our conversation eugene debs. ah know eugene debs today? think because some of the things that he argued for the late 19th and early 20th century■ organize, which he was callingwagner that he was callia system that would be something like what we have under social security that he was calling for for a faireristribution of wealth in the country. and i think as we look around america years, you know, and especially in these right now, ou you look at the overall numbers is the seem good but a lot ofnot really working r them. and i think you could say that over the past generation the fruits of our growth haven't been broadlyh to counteract that feeling. the strike traffic controllers in 1981, did that ure labor unions or definitely. and that's a subject i actually wrote a book about called collision courseimportant. ronald reagan wasdent of the air traffic controllers were federal employees. they di'49 to strike, but they were so frustrated with their inability eir employer, federal aviation administration, to with a lot of the issues that th

joining me now is michael beschloss, good to see you twice today. >> my honor. >> let's start with eugene debsof differences . >> right, first of all debs of course was a socialist and not a nominee of one of the two major policies and he was in prison on a matter of principle because woodrow wilson had passed when i would agree with debs, which were repressive laws against americans, free expression, during world war i and he had violated this to show his peaceful protest and he was jailed. and so he campaigned from prison but he wasn't saying, this system is rigged and i've been a victim of unfairness by a prosecutor or a judge or jury's, what debs said was i did this as a statement of conscious and people should understand why i'm doing that and factor that into your vote and actually got quite a few votes. >> it's a pole position, if i were a supporter of donald trump, could i say that he is taking a principled position. he called himself a political prisoner of a failing nation. i don't know, gandhi comes to mind, nelson mandela comes to mind, there are lots of those, what is your reactio

the other parallel people have discussed is eugene debs was the candidate for the socialist party inm jail, the only other candidate, not that trump will necessarily be in jail, but the only other candidate that has come close. what sort of mark do you think this guilty verdict puts on the office of the presidency itself? i think there are two different ways to look at it. one, the mark that if trump loses, he is a former president that has been convicted. therefore he would have among the worst tenures, perhaszohn tyler competes with him because he sided with the confederacy after his presidency. treason is not great. the other piece that is important, if he is re—elected, it is an amazing statement to suggest the american people would elect a felon. and while there is no prohibition against that in the constitution, i think it is fair to say that the founders would be very surprised that that is something the american people would do. we heard yesterday both donald trump and joe biden essentially saying that, in the end, this is all going to be decided at the ballot box in november

let's start with eugene v. debs.t of differences between him and what's going on with trump?>> first of all, he was a socialist and not a nominee of one of the two major parties. and he was in prison on a matter of principle. woodrow wilson had passed. what i would agree with eugene debs, was free expression during world war i and he violated this to show his peaceful protest and he was jailed. so he campaigned from prison, but he wasn't saying that the system is rigged and i've been a victim of unfairness by a prosecutor or a judge or jury's. what he said was, i did this as a statement of conscience and people should understand why i'm here and factor that into your vote. and he got quite a few votes. >> a principal position. if i were a supporter of trump, could i say he's taking a principled position? last night he called himself a political prisoner of a failing nation. i don't know, nelson mandela comes to mind. martin luther king was a political prisoner. what is your reaction to trump calling himself a politic

i mean eugene debs and 1920. and lyndon laroche in 1992. and i do think that i do think that the last not just i think the last 60 years in the united states has actually eroded this sense. and i think that maybe not just that's not just in europe, but i would also say international as well. you have to remember that the united states quite often takes the moral high ground on issues of freedom of speech, democracy, elections. trump is use derogatory terms to refer to countries and for example, africa in the state of their democracy. and when you make those kinds of comments as representatives of a government or a country and you then see presidential candidates who have been convicted of crimes have been found liable. for example, sexual assault in a civil court running for office. whatever you think of the verdict and whatever your opinion about the legal system, it becomes rather difficult them to take, as i said, the moral high ground on legal issues or ethical issues or political issues internationally. and i think so probably the dama

south africa, people campaigning from inside a prison and it is something new for this country, eugene debsate. martin luther king was in prison. this is totally -- charles: this would be a little different. >> this is new for the country and it is unclear how we process this. neil: in the meantime, a wild ride. what is interesting is the profile on the ceo, he says he works from the moment i get up to when i go to bed, work seven days a week, when not working, thinking about working and when i am working, i am working. ♪ ♪ .. >> this workplace evolution segment sponsored by the best teams in business unifying people, work, and content. adam: judge judy in the head of nvidia both admire those who work hard, they work hard themselves, she is among those who admires those earliest to work and staying latest. anyone who does less than that is nothing to them, she didn't say that but that was the message. then wong who founded nvidia saying i work from the moment i wake up to the moment i go to bed and i worked seven days a week. when i'm not working i am thinking about working and when i am wo

and for the first, say, 15 years of the 20th century, the socialist party, we think about eugene debs. but in the socialist party organized on the local level across country, had elected people to local and state office and where well in louisiana and texas, kansas, oklahoma, the dakotas. and one of the interesting historical questions then i guess thomas frank to take up, which is how did the red become the red states right and how take a political context out of people looking left and things turn around? no, obviously they're not the same people, but nonethess, there's a question of why the kind of political memories and political legacies changed you know in such powerful ways. yeah, we don't have lot of time left, but i do want to ask you about where neo liberalism fits in because we well many people would consider liberalism to be and of well, you just tell me what you think. well how would you place that on a spectrum? you know, i have a chapter in the book called neo liberals and illiberalism. to some, it starts with clinton's signing the crime bill and, you know, pt of the wa