and of course, you know, the european defence union. an, the boss of the european commission, von der leyen, making it very clear that the european defence union will mean , european defence union will mean, you know, one central form of, of, of, of ordering equipment, one central form of control. no national sovereignty. do you have any indications of what labour are saying when they when they come out with these comments, we must get closer to europe on defence. >> yeah, i mean absolutely both the, the new minister of defence and the foreign minister, david lammy, both of them declared before the election that they wanted to enter into a defence pact with the eu. and that's exactly what i think they will try and do. it doesn't make any sense, actually. but what it does make sense for is in terms of getting closer and closer to europe in the broader sense, you know, with, with a view to not necessarily going back into the eu, but certainly being able to position britain much more closely in alignment with the eu. and what it does, of co

defence union. what do you say? >> i think you'd got to have a look. you have to have a look at the detail. i mean, you know, and i know we were in the europeanent for the same time and there was always this push, wasn't it, a common foreign and security policy and defence and of course , you know, we've got of course, you know, we've got two nuclear powers, obviously with france and then obviously with france and then obviously with the united kingdom, although france left nato for a number of years and then came back, you know , nato is the back, you know, nato is the kingpin. and what's important is actually where you are, and it's who's going to be the next president of the united states , president of the united states, in my view. and of course, we're going to have we do have a very good relationship, frankly, with the european union. it's not just the eu, it's the whole of the ecac, the 44 european countries. we are at one. there's all sorts of manoeuvres and exercises that go on jointly, and there's fantastic cooperation, but what i want to see now is i want to see strong leadership in europe and i certainly want to see, and i hope yo

is nato our future or somehow, are we going to get closer to a european defence union?omorrow, but i wonder before we hear that, just how healthy is our democracy , given some of the our democracy, given some of the turnout figures in this general election? but before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst. >> nigel, thanks very much indeed. and good evening to you. jay slater's mother says the confirmation of her son's death in tenerife is the worst news she could have received. in a statement, debbie duncan said she can't believe what's happened to her beautiful boy, adding our hearts are broken. the 19 year old, from lancashire , the 19 year old, from lancashire, disappeared off the island a month ago after attending a music festival. a spanish court says his

is nato our future or somehow, are we going to get closer to a european defence union?tomorrow, but i wonder before we hear that, just how healthy is our democracy , given some of the our democracy, given some of the turnout figures in this general election? but before all of that, let's get the news with polly middlehurst. >> nigel, thanks very much indeed. and good evening to you. jay slater's mother says the confirmation of her son's death in tenerife is the worst news she could have received. in a statement, debbie duncan said she can't believe what's happened to her beautiful boy, adding our hearts are broken. the 19 year old, from lancashire , the 19 year old, from lancashire, disappeared off the island a month ago after attending a music festival. a spanish court says his body was identified by his fingerprints during a post—mortem examination, and the injuries to his body are consistent with a fall which then led to his death . vaughan then led to his death. vaughan gething told the welsh parliament today that serving as first minister has been the honour of his

secretary—general, leaders of nato countries, foreign defence ministers and partner nations of the european unioned guests, welcome to the 2024 nato summit. it is a pleasure. it is a pleasure to host you in this milestone year and look back with pride at all we have achieved and look ahead in our shared future with strength and resolve an together, we rebuild europe from the ruins of war and help guide the torture of liberty through long decades of the cold war —— torch of liberty. we welcome and alliance in war broke out in the balkans, we intervened, restored peace and stop the ethnic cleansing with the united states was attacked on september 11, our nato allies all stood with us invoking article five for the first time in nato history. treating an attack on us as an attack on all of us. breathtaking display of friendship to the american people that we will never forget. to the american people that we will neverforget. throughout to the american people that we will never forget. throughout all this history, great changes occurred and people would ask, can nato adapt and every time, we proved we

european union , not overturning european union, not overturning brexit, not returning to the single market, not returning to the customs union union, but having a structured dialogue with the european union, working on defenceion and in a host of other areas. >> but what i thought was really striking was then the meeting with president biden, where he was saying, from the us perspective , given that hugely perspective, given that hugely important special relationship between the uk and the us , the between the uk and the us, the uk being closer to europe , uk being closer to europe, although not part of it in a sense acts as a bridge, to, to the us so that we can work in cooperation, >> so, so i think it's, it's very positive, we're facing huge challenges internationally, and we need to work together and resolve these. >> but joe biden, by any reckoning, has been one of the most anti—british presidents in history. we've been at the back of the queue . it's all fair and of the queue. it's all fair and well saying get closer to the european union, but we brexited that's not on the cards . and that's not on the cards. and there could be a change of management in america. bill rammell at the moment, even joe bi

a strengthened nato, nato, but also we're going to need to work with our partners in the european union on defence. and it's certainly in our interests. >> okay. i'm joined by joined by chris hope in the studio. he's got a question for you, bill. >> you're a veteran a former tory labour mp, labour mp. forgive me. do you see this video of shortly after the king's speech, we saw rishi sunak chatting with sir keir starmer, angela rayner chatting. you see it there on screen now with oliver dowden, the deputy prime minister and deputy leader of the labour party respectively, and behind them, jeremy hunt, chatting away with rachel reeves, former and current chancellors. together it's a complete chumocracy this bunch, isn't it? i mean, we've heard earlier from rishi sunak saying he won't oppose for opposition's sake. we heard the same language from ed davey. i mean, what on earth have voters got here? a kind of national government where everyone agrees on stuff . on stuff. >> now there's huge divisions between the parties. but look, you know, politicians, despite their differences, are human beings. and

european nations as a collective security alliance against the soviet union. this week's summit focused heavily on taking steps to strengthen deterrence and defence as well as bolsteringies, would strenghten ukraine's air defences by providing more patriot missiles. my colleaguejonathan beale spoke with general charles 0 brownjr, chairman of thejoint chiefs of staff on support for ukraine. first of all, you've had a summit.

european nations, as a collective security alliance against the soviet union. this week's summit focused heavily on taking steps to strengthen deterrence and defence, as well as bolsteringt joe biden announcing that the us, along with several nato allies, would strengthen ukraine's air defences by providing it with more patriot missiles. my colleaguejonathan beale, spoke with general charles 0 brownjr, chairman of thejoint chiefs of staff on support for ukraine. first of all, you have just had a nato summit, and there's been a nato summit, and there's been a strong signal

defence of the realm. and security cooperation. so i would strongly support moves to get closer to the european union and its structures in the areastatus, at the political and security committee of the eu back in 2016, in my paper. >> let's watch this space. sir charles tannock, former mep. i'm afraid that's all we've got time for. but thank you so much for joining us and talking through that huge issue. >> so we led the way when it came to ukraine. anyway, we're crossing live to dover very shortly, where the first boat of migrants under a labour government has now arrived. how will they deal with this growing issue? that's after your headlines. >> very good afternoon to you. it's just after half past one. the top story from the newsroom this afternoon. downing street has admitted that this summer will be challenging for the new labour government as the first boat of migrants since the general election has crossed the engush general election has crossed the english channel. today, the group of 64 illegal migrants was intercepted by a border force vessel and taken to a migrant processing centre in dover harbour. it brings the total

european nations as a collective security alliance against the soviet union. this week's summit focused heavily on taking steps to strengthen deterrence and defence as well as bolsteringg—term support for ukraine. it kicked off with president joe biden announcing that the us, along with several nato allies, would strenghten ukraine's air defences by providing more patriot missiles. my colleaguejonathan beale spoke with general charles 0 brownjr, chairman of thejoint chiefs of staff on support for ukraine. first of all, you've had a summit. first of all, you've had a summit-— first of all, you've had a summit. , ., ~ ., summit. in terms of ukraine movin: summit. in terms of ukraine moving towards _ summit. in terms of ukraine | moving towards membership summit. in terms of ukraine - moving towards membership but ukraine, one thing it says, it wants those restrictions on the weapons, long—range weapons, the countries like the us applies to be lifted and i know this is a political decision. your military man. do you understand the frustrations of president zelensky, having his arms tied behind his back because the coming years as weapons as he would like? figs weapons as

european union. and that means doing more work together. we've heard from john healey, he's the defencecretary travelling out here with sir keir starmer. he's made very clear he wants more defence cooperation. some military cooperation. some military cooperation even. and that won't undermine the nato summit that i'm at here in washington dc. all eyes for the top people in the labour government as this, nato summit ends. there'll be a press conference later on tonight with the prime minister, sir keir starmer. but they're looking at this blenheim summit, this blenheim meeting of 44 or so european countries . we are so european countries. we are hosting it as the uk and that will be a meeting at which the uk will seek to deepen relationships with countries that that had been tested during those difficult brexit years. so yeah, that's the point. and you heard from joe biden in the oval office where i was last night with, with keir starmer. and he said there, didn't he, joe biden that he thinks a special relationship is a not which which bonds together the uk. the usa and the european unio

european defense union. triple the number of european border guard officers to 30 thousand. development of new pan-european ones. defense projects such as the european air shield and cyber defenceefense union, well , this initiative is certainly not a new one, yes, but even at first they were going to create a european defense union before nato, then the americans said: no, no, you will all be in nato with us, then there were some more attempts, even there was a european defense community, which was dissolved at the insistence of the americans, here you are... aimed at even greater confrontation with the russian federation, well, not only with the russian federation, but also with other countries that seem to support russia, so there is nothing new here, she has declared this many, many times already, only in different forms, it seems to me that once again they will run into the obvious thing that americans are not interested in european defense alliances outside of nato if they they say that we want to create something european, then what do you want? take something from nato, or what? yes, this, this is not good, the americans never do this, but either they are very much afra

european union, sir keir said. sir keir said last week that the government will increase the uk's cooperation on defence and securityigration. but am i being cynical when i ask whether overturning brexit and rejoin the european union might be on the european union might be on the agenda? well joining now is doctor andrew lilico, who's the chief executive director and principal of european economics. welcome to the show andrew. so sir keir starmer has said that it's not on the plan to have a second referendum to reverse brexit. but could something a bit more underhand be going on backroom deals , political backroom deals, political alignments, the kind of things that will have no say in we won't get a vote. it would just happen. won't get a vote. it would just happen . this could be death by a happen. this could be death by a thousand treaties. >> i don't think there's any appetite on the labour side, certainly for any formal, rejoining of the european union or single market or customs union, the in fact, if anything , union, the in fact, if anything, the situation is quite reverse. we have we had david lammy going o

defence in a moment but you are talking about trade. we know what labour has said about the eu but do you think there is scope in terms of closer relationship now with the european unions we know have happened post—brexit, or do you think there isn't a huge amount of room for manoeuvre? i isn't a huge amount of room for manoeuvre?— manoeuvre? i think it's really difficult to — manoeuvre? i think it's really difficult to answer _ manoeuvre? i think it's really difficult to answer that - manoeuvre? i think it's really i difficult to answer that question. either they certainly need to open a dialogue with the european union on those issues. and, i have no doubt that the labour government will be looking to do that. i think the numbers are really quite significant, we need to understand the actually our export and trading goods to the european union has fallen very significantly. and if we see ourselves as a manufacturing nation, which i very much hope we still do, we have got to focus on that issue. we have really got to address scope for improvement in the trade agreement that we have reached with the european union when we left europe five or six years ago. so i think

european union. this is a clear indication of our common european priorities, of how important it is to return a just peace to ukraine and all of europe. the us defencentagon. take a listen. ukraine is _ counterpart at the pentagon. take a listen. ukraine is not _ counterpart at the pentagon. take a listen. ukraine is not alone. - counterpart at the pentagon. take a listen. ukraine is not alone. the - listen. ukraine is not alone. the united states will never waver in our support. alongside some 50 allies and partners we will continue to provide the critical capabilities that ukraine needs to push back russian aggression today and to deter russian aggression tomorrow. let's bring in the panel again. i will come back to us support in a moment. stephanie, iwant will come back to us support in a moment. stephanie, i want your thoughts on the 0rban visit. it is moment. stephanie, iwant your thoughts on the 0rban visit. it is a du visit thoughts on the 0rban visit. it is a duty visit because _ thoughts on the 0rban visit. it is a duty visit because hungry - thoughts on the 0rban visit. it is a duty visit because hungry and - thoughts on the 0rban visit. i

defence budgets, as they should . they should. >> and trump actually was very successful in getting them to do this by his big stick approach to nato. but if you think that the european unioncan get to a sufficient level of military power, the european union, i was thinking, i was thinking about our european partners, in particular the french, the only other serious military power in europe, and the germans, who are not pulling their weight and have not been pulling their weight. >> but they 1945, they can't pull their weight in six months. >> and what's going on in ukraine is going on now. so actually in this context, i think, i think the summit summit's about a bit more than the next six months. >> we ought to be meeting with other european leaders to discuss the next six years. >> well, and the next 60 years and nato's last 75. >> so i'm not, i'm not, i'm not at all cool about this, this wmmw at all cool about this, this wmmkl at all cool about this, this summit. i think that regardless of what you think about brexit, i'm a paid up brexiteer as you are. it's a very good thing for european leaders to be sitting around talking about and planning for our security. >> fine

ukrainian skies, you have sizeable offerings from the netherlands, the european union and of course, the announcement on much—needed air defence winning this war, or don't and allow it to fall to russia. and i think going into this summit, there was a cap on expectation because, in the words of the romanian president, kyiv has only received half of what he'd asked for in terms of all of that weaponry and what it really doesn't have, despite the announcement of an irreversible path to membership for ukraine, is a timeline. more than 20 years ago... almost 20 years ago, ukraine was promised nato membership. that has yet to arrive. ukraine desperately wants all the benefits of membership. it wants western boots on the ground here to help repel russia's invasion. but ukraine's long known that's not going to happen anytime soon. so the question now, in a week where we've seen unprecedented missile strikes, the targeting of a children's hospital where infrastructure is being hit once more, we have a scenario where ukraine is hoping these security agreements, these promises of military aid and the delivery of military aid will be eno

centrepiece is going to be defence and security cooperation, leveraging britain's position as a global security superpower to win us friends and influence within the european unioncome in the field of migration, where we've got a mutual interest in tackling the problem. i think that can get us a better returns agreement with the european union. practical access to the remit of the dubun access to the remit of the dublin convention. so we can return people to first country of entry. i think there are possibilities around mutual recognition of professional qualifications. the chemicals industry, where i think we can get a better deal and agriculture. so i think there is room for manoeuvre. you know, personally i think brexit is the biggest act of national self—harm we've ever inflicted on ourselves as a nation. but and this is where i differ with norman, it is a reality. there is no going back. we couldn't countenance that. i think people would be electorally, electorally given the referendum result. but we can get closer. we can get closer alignment where it's in both our interest and the european union's interests. and i think that that is what keir is targeting

, conversations, for instance, about defence because of ukraine being there and all those sort of things. so there are a lot of issues that affect the european union it's union. and of course, it's sensible for us to have a positive relationship, but not the rules that come from being , the rules that come from being, a member of, of, of the eu as they do, you know, as we did in they do, you know, as we did in the past. >> were you a brexiteer, can you say, or i'm not a brexiteer, i'm a full on remain person and i and i wish we had remained because i still think that is the strength. >> but you have to be realistic about, where a government, a new government is going to be and what could happen. and i think by saying, by laying out, sorry, nana quickly, i just flowing out, laying out what we're not going to do in that respect, particularly freedom of movement and some of those issues. i think that's a good start to going forward. >> i don't know whether people trust keir starmer, because he has done a lot of u—turning in the past. and not just that, but the past. and not just that, but the fishing right things to me is concerning, i don't know, wh

defence policy, he wants to be part of that . now, wants to be part of that. now, that's not rejoining, but it is tying us once again to the european unionthe thing is, i suspect they will see how all of that goes. and with the majority they've got at the moment, i don't see why. and i'm not trying to plant the idea in their minds. i'm sure they've got it, why they couldn't initiate a second referendum. they could pass a law for another referendum and it's going to fly through, i'm sure. so this is, you know, this is something that the conservative party, this is a risk that the conservative party and reform totally neglected in, in their run up to this campaign, and i think that's a great shame. they weren't listening on, on the immigration thing. they weren't they weren't talking about the foreign policy and the defence policy side of things. not to any extent. these are major issues that are going to influence the future direction of the united kingdom, i believe. >> certainly, there's much, much to watch, keep control of our borders, keep control of our brexit. henry bolton, always an absolute delight to have you on the show. thanks

european union. and trying to work out a way of getting into bed with them, to use that term, or maybe on some migrant swaps , returns, on some migrant swaps, returns, agreements, defencey deals, and they just want to soften the hard edges of brexit. but what they do say and i will keep repeating it for viewers and for you and listeners, they will not go back on the single market or customs union or join the eu. >> no, but what it appears david lammy was, was saying at the nato summit in washington, the one that you were at, he would like deals on energy, on climate change and evil, even illegal migration. but these won't be things we get to vote on. they'll be political declarations. it's a back door reversal of brexit. well, a lot of people are going to say death by a thousand paper cuts. >> they are saying get a better deal >> they are saying get a better deal. i suppose all the big focus for me is next year's renegotiation or reassessment of the trade and cooperation agreement . agreement. >> fishing's up for grabs and all the big fish is the dog that has embarked. >> martin, i know you love your metaphors. fish is a dog that hasn't barked yet. it will. it will bar