that, we don't know, for instance, what christina bobb said about her interactions with him or evan cochranclear there's something prosecutors are very interested in there. >> do you -- i think for a while we've been looking at the sort of tier of witness that the special prosecutor has been talking to and once the special prosecutor was able to pierce attorney-client privilege in terms of the conversations between donald trump and evan cochran, his lawyer on mar-a-lago, i think a lot of folks said this investigation is nearing its conclusion, that's the guy who knows everything as it turns out the guy behind the guy in mar-a-lago is really boris epshteyn he's at the center of this spider's web, if you would >> well, he is and what you want do is go all the way to the top, you want to find the person the most culpable and so something that could happen and we just don't know because we don't know if prosecutors have a strong case on epshteyn, but if it is a strong case it's possible they sat him down and said this is a moment, do you want to be a defendant or do you want to be a witness. >>

which is to talk about these trump investigations washington post reporter yesterday that evan cochrane, top trump lawyer, has no recused himself from the classified documents case, h was recently ordered by a cour to testify to the federal gran jury in that case. how aware is it for a recusa like this to happen? what do you make of it >> well, it is an unusua situation. from central to one of the mos important things that happen i this entire situation. which is the moment wher donald trump causes his lega team to send a certification t the doj, that says all of th classified material has been returned that is obstruction of justice or at least that is th allegation of the specia counsel is investigating and because evan corcoran is central to that, he is involve in the issuance of tha certification, his testimony was permitted by the judge eve though he claimed attorney client privilege and the judge explicitly said, without casting by the way any sense that corcoran is at faul here but simply said a client canno use an attorney to perpetrat criminal conduct so she permitted that veil

, most recent development >> well this is a long overdue step it has been very puzzling to see evan cochranetter, continuing to represen the former president of th united states in a crimina case where corcoran is a material witness their interests are adverse, h should not be working for trum in that case and this simply reflects the reality of hi situation. >> all right joyce vance for us as always my friend, grea to see thank you. all right coming up everybody, donald trump and mike pence, both appearing at the nr convention in indiana. one got a slightly bette reception than the other we will let you guess whic one. and here is a live look from boston, where they are marking ten years since the boston marathon bombing a moment of silence an speeches from the mayor an governor happening shortly, we will bring that to you as soon as you get started stayit wh us you don't want -to go bowling with us tonight? -yeah. no. there's my little marzipan! [ laughs ] oh, my daughter gives the best hugs! we're just passing through on our way to the jazz jamboree. [ imitates trumpet playing ] and we wa