brian: why everett dirksen? brian: he was from a different perspective. he was a modern senator in the 1950's and 1960's. he died in 1969. he was probably the most effective minority leader we've ever had. he was a republican from illinois. minority the throughout his leadership. this is the time of heavy party dominance in the senate. nevertheless, he managed to shape every bill that came through. most particularly the civil rights act of 1964 and the voting rights act of 1965. he was entertaining and kind of clownish. the reporters loved him. the press loved him. the voters loved him. but behind the clown was this very serious legislator. so like sumner, he just has endless layers that you can keep peeling off. brian: how long have you been the senate historian? betty: i came in june of 1998. i was an assistant historian and then the associate historian. i've been the senate historian since june 2015. brian: what is your day like? betty: they are very rarely the same. one of the things i love about my job is you don't really know what you're going to be

when i was an intern here, everett dirksen was the leader of the republican minority and a major playerith l.b.j. in making the civil rights bill in 1964 and the voting rights bill of 1965 bipartisan. host: he also used television quite effectively during his time. senator mcconnell: he was not particularly photogenic, but he was a great actor. he had a natural wit. he could've made his living being an actor in place on broadway. so, he was entertaining. he sort of kept the republicans alive, after the kennedy assassination and the goldwater we were down to a smaller number debacle of we were down to a smaller number again, which has 1964. happened a couple of times in the last 100 years. and, of course, everyone remembers bob dole who became the leader when i got here and was our candidate for president. and when bob stepped down to run full-time for president in 1996 he was seceded by trent lott of , mississippi. host: do you still stay in touch with your predecessors, talk to them? senator mcconnell: sure. i was talking to dole recently. i talked to lott frequently. and bill is back

so wanted to get ho chi minh in a room and negotiate with him the same way he negotiated with everett dirksen and gerald ford. to achieve peace. he was accustomed to that hands-on negotiation process. each year, the will in america to stay the course continued to erode. the incredible will of the north was an unshakable will coming from hanoi despite the bombings despite the loss of life. the americans never lost a battle. not in tet. never did american forces lose a battle in that war. there were setbacks and there were huge casualties. [applause] to those of you who served and died, people like jan scruggs who served and were wounded. this nation owes you an incredible amount of debt and as you visit thailand and laos and singapore of the places today , there are many people who think that communism could've replaced the kind of democracy that flourishes there. i guess we will never know. alexander: your comment about the 1964 period and the gulf of tonkin. august 4 of 1964. when the two destroyers were presumably attacked. they said they were under attack. that happens to be the last day t

. >> host: everett dirksen. >> guest: indispensable player who knew when to oppose and when to join upnd an unsung hero in the civil rights movement. >> host: senator john sherman cooper of kentucky. >> guest: my role model as a young man. great conviction, very smart. >> host: ted kennedy. >> guest: he was the lion of the senate, as one of the many books about him have been written. and he roared. and you and i both knew when he was passionate, which he was about almost everything. but in many ways i think the most accomplished kennedy. he never got to be president, he never was attorney general, but i think in almost every way the most accomplished kennedy. >> host: certainly the most accomplished senator as a kennedy and maybe the most accomplished. you know, we used to laugh with him about going to lincoln day dinners, and all you had to do was mention ted kennedy's name to fire up the crowd. [laughter] yet when i made my first speech on the senate floor about american history, he came over unsolicited, took my bill, went out and got 20 democratic co-sponsors within a day. so he kn