think some of the wording here whether it's an operating cost or an operating expense, a capital cost, exal expense, from a funding perspective if it's coming from capital planning we're going to defend it and we haven't increased it in the last few years. >> vice president elsbernd: what do you mean defend it? as a priority because we are focused on long-term funding. >> vice president elsbernd: i guess i was thinking there's more money available for this kind of capital work than looking at the operating pot of money. >> not a lot there. >> vice president elsbernd: so that would be my one concern. i agree with the theory. supervisor farrell is right on that. if the end game is to maintain better characterize it as capital. >> for us as well i think in terms of staff work, having the different departments come to us to talk about their maintenance on a regular basis makes our jobs easier in terms of looking at the larger issues of renewals and replacements of things. having that dialogue is useful to us just process-wise. >> vice president elsbernd: out of curiosity to the grand jury was t

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