exxon. even some of the more responsible oil companies are ashamed to be part of this. but several that have very deep pockets and that hide their influence in shellsing names which are shells of shells of shells. >> astroturf. >> basically doing this. we have to move beyond this. one of the reasons why we don't move beyond it is that our government, which should be responsible, secretary kerry is doing a wonderful job of saying how important it is, but where is the administration's plan? they haven't put forward an energy plan that shows how we can move out of this. i fault them as well. no government has been willing to stand up to these powerful interests. and that's why people are confus confused. many people, most people in america know climate is changing, most of those who say that know that it's human caused. i think that most of the debate is about the science is a pseudodebate. what we don't have is a real debate about how to change the energy system right now. >> but let me ask you on that, note, bill. because the president, i mean, first of all, it's not just america. we need an international quorum for action. >> that's correct. >> 7 o