ezra klein is the author of "why we're polarized." columnist for "the new york times" starting this week actually. ezra, let me ask you. everyone is talking about how the people who rioted, the people who stormed the capitol should be held accountable, should be punished to the fullest extent of the law. you wrote something saying, well, that shouldn't really be our focus. explain why. >> so it is not they shouldn't be held accountable. they should. but remember that the real villains here are the people that fooled them. they are marks. they are conned. they were not conned by random folks on the street. the president of the united states told them the election had been stolen, that electoral politics had failed, had make a mockery of, that a landslide had been taken from them. and he wasn't alone. he was joined by the house minority leader, by more than a dozen u.s. republican senators, by every major conservative talk radio host, by the lineup of fox news. so these people were told that a tremendous crime had been committed and the

joining me, ezra klein, and mara, an msnbc contributor. watch what happened last week and i just kept thinking, what did you think would happen when you were supporting this guy for president in 2016? how did you think this was going to end? >> that's right. one of the saddest things for me as an american, a high school being first, concern -- a human being first. concern for everyone's safety. but as a journalist, a black journalist. there are a lot of us, not only black journal the is but many voices including raze who have been saying for a very long time that this is the face of the trump movement at its worst. it doesn't mean every trump supporter supports what happened at the capitol last week. but there is a deep seated strain of anti-democratic activity, of extreme right wing and in many cases, racist, anti-semitic, a virulent strain that runs through this movement. and it was always going to come to this if we didn't confront it. unfortunately, a lot of us were not taken seriously, i think. so this is a frustration that i've had w

also with us, ezra klein, opinion columnist, and host of the podcast, "the ezra klein show." norm, i want to begin with what it means within the senate for mitch mcconnell to cave like this tonight, just give up and no pretense, no -- there's nothing in his move that indicates there was anything other than i guess chuck schumer was going to beat me at this, i had to give into him. >> it was kind of odd in a way, lawrence, because this was a madeup fight. there was no reason to have it. it wasn't going to lead anywhere. however it ended, the only thing that he could have done was to keep democrats from chairing committees for a period of time. and that wouldn't have looked good over -- after a while. but what we have to keep in mind is that while this is a victory for schumer, the big battles continue to be ahead. and we know what mcconnell's strategy was with -- when barack obama was president and we know what it's going to be now and we know most of his republicans are going to do the same thing. and that is to obstruct wherever they can and to use the delaying tactics to ta

later, we'll hear from ezra klein.has a new piece about the deadline he sees for real changes in washington. >>> but up next, let me tell you, we have something new and very special. it's airing for the first time on "the beat." i just talked with philanthropist bill gates. we're going to air key parts of this interview to parts of tech to whether billionaires should pay more in taxes, next. re in t. clearly, nothing melts like velveeta. ♪♪♪ ah, a package! you know what this human ordered?, nothing melts like velveeta. a backache. consider pain, delivered. pain says you can't. advil says you can. ♪♪ this is what community looks like. ♪♪ caring for each other, ♪♪ protecting each other. ♪♪ and as the covid vaccine rolls out, we'll be ready to administer it. ♪♪ we'll be ready to administer it. hey kim! with 5% cash back on travel purchased through chase from freedom unlimited, you can now earn even more. book that hotel kim, because you are worth it. i am worth it. now earn 5% on travel purchased through chase and so much

the big point for ezra klein is that it is not just those measures in the senate making it work. it is sort of one thing to have a plan. it is another to get it through. on the foreign policy side, americans vote on foreign policy, but it certainly matters. tackling the big question of how america is going to sort out its relationship with china, on questions of technology, but also pushing forward to cooperate with china and show some big wins or at least the beginning of a strategy for cooperating on global health and especially preventing the next pandemic, and then on climate. i think demonstrating a workable relationship that is not stuck and that is making some form of progress with china will be really the most important headline that we can see. and talk about a tremendous team that biden has put in place to try and move that forward. for example, giving a lot of thinking to -- there is at least -- i'm hoping it looks like china is waiting. tom: so much of this is 10 years ago -- maybe 11 years ago -- leslie vinjamuri, president obama at the time called it a shellacking.

. >>> for more on the urgency to get things done quickly, let's turn to ezra klein from the "new york times." he's an opinion columnist there at the "new york times." his latest op-ed is called "democrats how to lose in 2022." and adam serwer is joining us as well. ezra, you wrote a column calling on democrats to move swiftly and kind of clearly to help people and i thought -- i just want to read this section because it jumps off of the point here about speed which is of the essence. three principles should guide their efforts, they need to help people fast, they need to take politics seriously, recognizing the defeat in 2022 will result in catastrophe, they need to talk about the importance of democracy, deepen american democracy. let's talk about that first point which to me seems very pressing at this moment. >> if you go back to 2009, which is the last time -- the last session in which they had a governing trifecta. they make a couple of mistakes they look back on with some regret. they allow republicans to filibuster almost everything. they get slowed down, they end up -- they ge

. >> ezra klein and maura gay get tonight's last word. thank you both for joining us tonight. i really appreciate it. thank you. that is tonight's "last word." "the 11th hour" with brian williams starts now. >>> well, good evening once again as we start a new week. day 1,453 of the trump administration. nine days remain now until the inauguration of joe biden as our 46th president. this final full week of the trump administration begins with, let's call it what it is. the nation facing an active and dangerous domestic terror threat, bracing perhaps for even more violence. while the white house this week goes about -- while the house this week goes about impeaching donald trump for the second time, the looting of our u.s. capitol building, as many have pointed out, is that rare event that has grown in importance in the days since it happened. new pictures and video only make the event more depressing, darker, scarier than it seemed to be even in the moment. and a warning, especially for those of you joining us on the west coast where little ones may still be awake. this video i

the writer ezra klein hit a similar point after wednesday's riot noting that many highly educated gopere cynical. they knew that biden would be present, and they still, quote, brought this upon themselves and all of us. that's right. and many journalists have made this point as an independent ocean. the same journalists who donald trump spent years trying to discredit. >> some republicans are acting like trump's behavior is a big joke. quote, who what is the downside for humoring him for this little bit of time? >> the villains were the ones more duplicitous, the kevin mccarthys of the world, the ted cruzes of the world, the hawleys of the world. >> these people are still in government as they lose control of the senate, some of them. they may still run for president in the future. so assuming america will automatically be past this on january 20th is like assuming that 2021 was going to be so much better than 2020, because the ball dropped. because the calendar changed. keyer 15 days into 2021. how's that assumption working out? the insurrection was not some spectacularly random even

ezra klein will join us tonight at the end of this hour for tonight's "last word." beto o'rourke will also start our discussion tonight. this is his first public appearance, television interview, since the invasion of the capitol. with donald trump planning to travel to texas tomorrow, beto o'rourke has something to say about donald trump coming to texas while he's being charged with incitement of insurrection by the house of representatives. daniel goldman was special counsel to the house intelligence committee for the first impeachment investigation of donald trump. he will guide us through what to expect in this second high-speed version of impeachment of donald trump in the house of representatives this week. daniel goldman will join us later in this hour. >>> our first guest tonight is congressman jason crow. he was one of the house managers of the prosecution of donald trump in the first senate impeachment trial of donald trump. congressman crow is a lawyer. he's a veteran, an army ranger, former army ranger who achieved the rank of captain while earning decor