i want to talk about what fani willis said yesterday when she unloaded in a letter on jim jordan. the chair of the house judiciary committee. he's been trying to investigate this probe and had requested documents from willis. she says, your job description does not include criminal law enforcement nor does it include supervising a specific criminal trial because you believe that doing so will promote your partisan political objectives. she encouraged him to read georgia's rico statute saying he can buy a copy for just $249. she did not mince words there, hannah. your reaction? >> yeah, fani willis didn't mince words. she also didn't have to send this letter. so i think the fact that she sent this and she said what she said is not only important but especially when it comes to jim jordan. especially when it comes to how he's tried to interfere, not only with this investigation, but the other investigations into donald trump. i'll remind your viewers that in march of this year, jim jordan spent a letter to alvin bragg who indicted donald trump in new york and said, we want your inve

when they step back into session in the house going forward and fani willis made it clear what she was doing was unconstitutional, and it would step on the state's rights, and they had no business in fanni wi willis' views, that just because donald trump is a political candidate, he is not above the law. and she rejected that because of when the charges were brought in the election season, that is the intent, that it is not the intent, because the investigation had concluded. and she went on the say this in the blistering response to the judicial definition does not include law enforcement nor a specific criminal trial, because you believe so will promote your partisan political objectives. fani willis, and the judicial committee is trying to figure out if she in any way coordinated with justice department, jack smith's office who of course has brought separate charges on the federal level against the former president. she went on to say that her office did receive $12 million in other grants for other issues like dealing with crime on the streets, and dealing with sexual assault, and

this worked for jim jordan and fani willis. both welcome. >> we have some breaking news that i want to discuss here. that is nancy pelosi, the speaker amerit ta who are is still a member of congress, announced in congress she's going to run for yet another term to be a rank and file member of the house. manu, you have been covering her for a long time. does this surprise you? >> a little bit. she loves a fight. she loves to be in the middle of it. she settled into her role as a rank and file member of the house after being the leader and speak heer of the house for two decades. she's 83 years old. so there's probably some expect aation that perhaps it's time for her to move on. there's been a succession behind the scenes to replace her, potentially by her own daughter. but pelosi is enjoying this moment and believes democrats can get back in the majority next cycle. she's making clear she's not going anywhere. >> it has been really interesting to see that the transformation for her, it's like a weight has kind of lifted off of

fani willis. we heard that in court two days ago when we were there dealing with whether or not we were going to have a severance of kenneth chesebro from sidney powell and the other defendants of the 150 witnesses, you see some of them here now. is lindsey graham going to be called to testify by the state of georgia against donald trump if this goes to trial, when it goes to trial? these are the questions that remain a little bit unanswered and we now have a little bit more elimination as we sit here right now. >> there are so many different aspects with it, state and in the case you're mentioning, national implications. i'm wondering what are you seeing that stands out to you in this very, very specific series of indictments? >> well, jose, i want to underline the headline for our viewers and make sure it doesn't get lost. a special grand jury recommended criminal charges against one current and two former u.s. senators in connection with their alleged actions to try to overturn the 2020 electio

scott mcafee, who is presiding over the georgia case said that heat was quote, a very skeptical of fani willis's put all 19 defendants on trial next month. it seems to be judged mcafee and congressman jim jordan and other critics have forgotten who d.a. willis is, and what exactly she has accomplished in her time in office. so, allow me a moment to remind folks of her track record. we're almost 20 years in a prosecutor, fani willis has led more than 100 jury trials. she is an expert in r.i.c.o. cases and then, forget he prosecuted one of georgia's largest criminal cases involving a cheating scandal and the atlanta public school system. in fact, since becoming chief prosecutor, willis's office is, wilson's conviction right for the d.a.'s office has stood close to 90%. the conviction rights matter, because prosecutors only bring cases they believe that they can win. so, they said. so, look. why are folks and saying that fani willis is in over her head or she is biting off more than she can to? and why the special counsel jack smith escape any scrutiny for his strategy? he also is bringing a case a

fani willis, for daring to investigate donald trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. the state level, top republicans are moving ahead with their plan to target willis, using a -- brian kemp that makes it easier to remove elected district attorney's. under the law, a commission made up of state officials has the power to investigate complaints, and discipline, or even remove prosecutors, who they believe are not properly enforcing the law. this week though, governor kemp himself shot that idea down, saying he has not seen any evidence that willis's actions have been unlawful. but, republican lawmakers were undeterred. the commission will start receiving complaints on october 1st. on the federal level, house republicans have already launched a probe into willis, baselessly accusing her of coordinating with special counsel jack smith. house judiciary chair jim jordan has given willis until september 7th to hand over documents he has requested. and -- msnbc political contributor is with us now. and, joining us back in the conversation, charles forman, and jennifer horn.

fani willis from office. now, earlier this year the republican controlled legislature passed a law allowing a newly formed commission to investigate and remove any elected prosecutor in the state of georgia. it is called the prosecuting attorney overnight commission. using it to go after d.a. willis in the middle of the very public and high stakes case would be a step so radical that even georgia's republican governor brian kemp is warning against it. but the new commission that theoretically has the power to remove d.a. willis is set to begin its work in the next few weeks unless it's stopped by the courts. four georgia district attorneys have filed a lawsuit arguing the new law establishing this commission is unconstitutional and anti-democratic. one of them joins me now. the district attorney of dekalb county, georgia, right next door to fulton county. madam district attorney, thank you so much for joining me tonight. and there's a lot to talk about in terms of the substance of this law and its decidedly a

fani willis decline to indictment them? what made trump loyalists like michael flynn and boris epstein less prosecutable than mark meadows and rudy giuliani? we're going to get into the potential problems d.a. willis might have identified and what these almost co-defendants are saying for themselves. senator graham just spoke with reporters. there's also news about another lawsuit, this one trying to keep donald trump off the ballot in colorado. we're going to have more on that in a moment. >>> let us start once again with georgia. joining us is nbc news justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard who's in rapid city, south dakota, where donald trump is holding a rally tonight. and "atlanta journal constitution" reporter greg blue stein along with legal analyst lisa rubin. let us starts with the would-bes here. senator lindsey graham is clearly the headline, ken dilanian, that he was somebody they considered potentially bringing charges against. remind us what lindsey graham h

came out and answered the question, at least for now, of what georgia republicans would do about fani willis by effectively telling donald trump to take a hike. >> up to this point i have not seen any evidence that d. a. willis's actions or lack thereof warrant action by the prosecuting attorney oversight commission. a special session of the general assembly to and run around this law is not feasible, and ultimately proved to be unconstitutional. the bottom line is that in the state of georgia, as long as i am governor, we're going to follow the law and the constitution. regardless of who it helps or harms politically. and in georgia we will not be engaging in political theater that only inflames the emotions of the moment. >> tanya miller served as a prosecutor in the fulton county district attorney's office aside alongside fani willis. she is now political reporter for the atlanta journal-constitution. his latest article is -- warns of risks of punishing fani willis. greg, i've been following your reporting on this question threw out and did you have a heads up about this happening today?

fani willis is an independent state prosecutor. her indictment of donald trump and 18 alleged co-conspirators is a state level racketeering and conspiracy charge. but that reality has not stopped republicans in congress from getting involved. after willis' criminal indictment was issued, the chair of the house judiciary committee, congressman jim jordan, launched an investigation into her investigation. and, well, today d.a. willis responded to his demands for documents related to her case. d.a. willis did not mince words. she called it an unjustified and illegal intrusion. she said mr. jordan was flagrantly at odds with the constitution and also lacked a basic understanding of the law and its practice. instead of her investigation she suggested mr. jordan train his attention and that of the justice department on the threats her office has received. by way of proof ms. willis attached example of racist and anti-semitic and violent threats she has received including the fan-fiction-style submission of willis being shot at her home b

fani willis.d should be a concern, for everyone, especially when that commission has power on october 1st -- and we know that this trial is slated to begin -- with at least some defendants on october 23rd. so, the idea that anybody can bring a complaint and try to thwart d. a. willis from doing her job in the middle of a major prosecution should be troubling to everyone. >> yeah. and it is worth noting that many of the people who sit on this commission are former d. a.'s themselves. i am sure you know who they are. we do not. perhaps there is some hope that because they are d. a's themselves, they will recognize the importance of prosecutorial independents here. who can know? what is your expectation for the lawsuit? you're asking for an injunction while this case works its way through the courts. what is your expectation? >> absolutely. we filed this lawsuit and we filed the injunction a few weeks ago because we absolutely believe that harm can come to a number of d. a.'s before we've had an oppo

fani willis has a lot to work with. speaking of which, neal, the fact that mark meadows took the stand last month, everything he said when he took the stand can be used in a criminal case. one of the things he was unable to do, that the judge cited in this ruling, was explain any outer limits to what would not be considered federal work. that basically nothing was off limits. and therefore, everything was fair game, as white house chief of staff. do you think that's problematic, as we head into a state criminal trial? >> i don't, alex. first of all, i think what meadows said in the court today, sweeping rejection of, it doesn't just do meadows case for removal, it -- donald trump just as much. everything the judge chose to say is that the president is cut out, the executive branch as a hole is cut out of policing president elections. so that means, when donald trump, if he does file a motion to remove the case to federal court, it is going to be rejected. to be sure, judge jones is careful, on page 48, he says, look, i'

mark meadows will appeal tonight's decision, putting that aside, this is a huge legal victory for fani willis. it's really one of the first victories. willis is juggling this extraordinarily complex case in which she had another victory this week went two other defendants in trump cool waters failed to get their cases severed from each other. the judge, that would be a georgia criminal court judge, rejected their arguments and now they are looking to go to trial next month, october 23rd. meadows, on the other hand, possibly still could get his chance to be in federal court in fact a lot of them might. special counsel jack smith in his federal case is famously not charged any of the coconspirators yet. mark meadows is not one of the unnamed coconspirators, but he's in the thick of all of this. and we learned today, and this is really something, if only willis, for all her tenacity and aggressiveness in pursuing this case, all the insults and criticisms she has faced from people but support donald trump, that fani willis was actually a vision of restraint in terms of the people she could have i

this was before fani willis indicted. it is the ability to remove any dea but specifically, in this case, fani willis, from her position as a fulton county d.a. so that trump could effectively walk on the charges. earlier this week, one georgia state senator told steve bannon that removing well as using this newly-passed law by the republicans in the state was the only alternative to, get this, a full blown civil war to stop trump's indictments. >> now that we've got 19 people who are facing the rest of their lives in prison because they spoke out against an election, i mean, you know, i told one senator i said listen, we've got to put our heads together and figure this out. we need to be taking action right now, because if we don't, our constituencies are going to be fighting it in the streets. do you want a civil war? i don't want a civil war. i don't want to have to draw my rifle. i want to make this problem go away with my legislative means of doing so. and the first step to getting that done is defunding fani willis.

governor brian kemp refused to call a special session to remove fulton county district already fani willisicans as, quote, political theater. >> up to this point, i have not seen any evidence that d. a. willis's actions, or lack thereof, weren't absent by the prosecuting attorney oversight

fani willis is his having none of it. and is standing firm in her request to have all 19 defendants tried together. in a court filing on tuesday, willis asked judge mcafee to clarify the trial schedule in writing, quote, the state maintains its position that severance is improper at an absolute minimum, the court should set defendant powell's trial and that of another defendant who may file a speedy trial demand on the same date as defendant chesebro. as of now, it remains unclear whether the other defendants would be tried on that same date. but as willis worked to keep her case intact, she is also facing attacks from trump and his allies within the georgia gop. state senator, colton moore, has been pushing for impeachment, calling for an emergency session to, quote, review the actions of fani willis. an idea that trump appraised on his failed social media site. this week, that idea was quashed by none other than fellow republican georgia governor, brian kemp. here is what he said at a press conference on thursday. >> i

part of fani willis's argument in that filing is that she's gotten threats, right? she used those as an example of what they could face. the attorney, the assistants, court employees, is there even a larger potential risk here? >> well, in terms of the jury, tv trials happen all the time, and you don't see the jury. usually you'll hear the clerk say and the jury is entering the courtroom, and the cameras turn to the judge. the cameras turn to the parties. so i don't think -- this ruling of the judge, i agree with lisa will be balanced. you will not see the jurors photographed or videotaped. that will be a direction by the court. they will be anonymous, the same way as lisa mentioned they were in manhattan on the civil rape defamation case. i don't know whether or not the judge is going to say you can't say there are five women and seven men, and you know, this number of black people, this number of white people. that might be overbroad, but i think there is that danger here when you do have it televised. it should be televised, but now people -- people who may not b

and it was a big massive victory for district attorney fani willis.in part, because their legal strategy doesn't seem to be working, we are also seeing is donald trump and his allies doubling down on their efforts to discredit the prosecutors. basically accusing them of politicizing the legal process. but, the truth is, and if you look at this link especially, when you look at all that what's happening the only people who are politicizing these cases are aligned with donald trump. for all the right wind talk about political persecution, we learned this week that d.a. willis had the opportunity to indict as many as twice as many people, including a sitting republican senator. but she didn't, obviously that is based on the law, but she didn't. according to the special grand jury's final report which was made public on friday, it turns out they not only recommended her to do that for trump's fellow codefendants, but also 21 others who she chose ultimately not to indict, those include a number of prominent political players, david perdue, and kelly waffle

a judge however blocked fani willis from investigating jones because of a conflict of interest because willis had hosted a fund-raiser a -- state agency has said it plans to appoint a special prosecutor to determine if bert ajou nze should face charges. graham, loeffler, and flint have all denied wrongdoing in response to the special grand jury's report. epstein has declined comment while purdue and jones have not come out with any public statements yet. the names are not particularly surprising, since all the people are known to be hard-core trump acolytes who were openly doing the former president's bidding. they weren't charged in the end. the inclusion in the final report reflects the widespread efforts of donald trump's desperate and anti-democratic attempts to cling to power. a point was emphasized by the january six committee's own investigations. let's put this into perspective. these were senators and elected officials and white house aides who were exposed to criminal charges due to their associations with a failed and disgraced former. president and in turn, the reputations

is that what caused fani willis trepidation or the difficulty in charging a u.s. senator or maybe the evidence? >> picking between the three, john, it is more likely the evidence. as you have been pointing out, that since we can't see the transcripts and the evidence and seeing a summary here, the votes, i'm a little bit skeptical of that, but there is some distinctions to be made, and having indicted hundreds of grand jurors indictments, i can tell you that the vote did not matter to us, unless it is slim and almost a deadlock to it, but to michael's point, this is a grand jury who had been focused on the one case for a long time, and therefore the weight of those votes might have carried a lot more meaning to the prosecutor in making the decisions. it is also, i don't think that the potential federal official defenses would have bothered this prosecutor very much. that is speculation, but it seems that she would have had the evidence and full steam ahead. it is possible they may have done a good job of themselves in testifying before the grand jury for some of t

fani willis, what would you do? >> well, d.a. fani willis does not want the try this many, many times. she is going to have to take these two defendants who have asked for speedy trial in october because she has to do that, but she wants to minimize the number of trials. and if mark meadows wins this bid to go to federal court, that is another trial to include him and others in federal court, so she is looking to break this into the smallest number of pieces that she can. i believe she will go to court and suggest a trial court for the 17 remaining defendants a few months out, and then propose that they see how many defendants plead out between now and the months before the date approaches and try to get into as few trials as possible, because it is a going to be labor intensive, and see how few she can get to. >> and there a filing to try as if as possible, but trying a rico case, walk me through the disadvantages of the bite-sized cases as opposed to trying them in a more organized fashion. >> these cases are going to be a pret

i think the question is did fani willis anticipate all of this possibly happening. i have to think she did. she's an experienced prosecutor and this is to some extent the cost of bringing the kind of case she brought, which was a very, very broad case against a lot of defendants. but these things in the law that permit you to try to move your trial to federal court or to delay your arraignment a bit or to ask for a speedy trial, which forces the government's hand, i think that those are legitimate things that these defendants can do, and as you pointed out, it really has splintered the case. the question really is what are these defendants going -- what positions are they going to hold to? and the ones who haven't asserted, for example, donald trump could bring the same motion -- he could remove his case to federal court as well. he has 30 days to do it from the time of arraignment, which, for him, since he did waive his personal appearance, that was last thursday, and i think a lot of them are sitting back and saying i'm just going to sit back and wait until i have

fani willis understands them. this is a strong strategic move on her part. >> >> joyce, let me stay with you on that point. because i read and we read that passage that you just described. and now you're getting me so much closer to understanding it. except for this. the defendants who are asking for a sovereign's have been asking for a severance from everyone. they've been asking to be trialed individually. now, the judge denied that, but for the first request that he heard in court. are you saying that what willis wants is everyone who asks for a severance ends up getting tried in one group, and the people who don't ask for a severance and of getting tried in another group? >> right, it gets complicated at this point. i think the best that we can say is the two who have made a speedy trial demands will go to trial in late october. that's not changing. as to the 17, sure they all want to be severed from all of the other defendants. they don't want to hear any more evidence or sit at the table with them. but we sa

fani willis last month when she indicted donald trump and 18 others, and today, she released a blistering response to house judiciary committee chairman jim jordan's decision to investigate her investigation. >>> also tonight, the libraries of 13 former presidents, republican and democrat, issue an unprecedented warning about the state of u.s. democracy as we see an uptick in violent rhetoric from politicians on the right. >>> plus, colorado voters file a lawsuit to keep trump off the ballot, raising the question, can the 14th amendment truly bar him from becoming president again? >>> good evening. i'm jonathan capehart in for joy reid. we begin with a slew of legal developments today on multiple fronts. all involving the many criminal cases of donald trump and his associates. starting with peter navarro, the former adviser in the trump white house who just a short time ago was found guilty by a d.c. jury on two counts of criminal contempt of congress for refusing to comply with the subpoena from the house january 6th select committee last year. in their closing arguments, prosecutors tol

saying, go ahead and start filing your complaints against fani willis.start getting your complaints together. so that as soon as the commission starts in october, they have cases or have investigations that they're being asked to began. >> so along these lines you have some new reporting for the atlanta journal-constitution about the infighting amongst republicans. given in the state house as republicans react to senator kolten moore's request, if you will, on his efforts to remove anti fraud, if you will, the a fani willis. talk to us about the infighting, where is this all shaken down? >> it is shaking down the lieutenant governor who was the head of the senate. they are speaker, of course the house. and you have governor kemp. they are all republicans and quite frankly the lieutenant governor is pretty conservative. he is one of the alternate electors. he was one of the alternate electors. but all three of them are saying, hey let's slow down on this special. there is a state senator who said he thinks there should be a special session. so the members

fani willis's prosecution, a grand jury report was unveiled.s a wide array of trump allies who were not indicted despite recommendations from the special grand jurors. the sprawling list included top republican names like senator lindsey graham, former senator david perdue and kelly loeffler, trump's former national security adviser, michael flynn, interim quarterback lawyer, for us epstein. joining me now, legal analyst for the host of the justice meadows podcast, glenn, let's start with that denial of the mark meadows attempts to move to federal court. by now, we've had time to digest it more. we know that meadows cannot have his case removed in federal court, he's going to remain state court. we do have major hearings coming up a 19 and 9:20. september 18th and 20th. those are for the four remaining defendants who have already filed or notices of removal. one of which is jeff clark, a former u.s. attorney, and attorney general. the remaining three are georgia fake electors. what are your, thoughts glenn, about how things will turn out for th

. >>> we begin tonight with the first televised hearing in fani willis' criminal case against formersident trump in georgia. i'm jason johnson in tonight for joy reid. the trial will be televised and is coming very soon. today, we have a taste of what's to come. fulton county superior court judge scott mcafee said he would allow kenneth chesebro to sever his case from sidney powell. chesebro and powell are among the 19 defendants in the georgia racketeering case. they have both asked for speedy trials. chesebro is accused of being the, quote, architect of the trump elector scheme while sidney powell is facing a slew of charges that include an effort to improperly access voting machines in rural coffee county, georgia. the defendant said their cases were different and they wanted to be tried separately. prosecutor's response, that ain't the way this works. >> so we've heard a lot from both defendants about they didn't know the other people. they were located thousands of miles apart. they didn't know the other parts of the conspiracy were going on. but the case law is clear, that that

that da fani willis is taking on republicans in congress sending a blunt response to the republican chairthe house judiciary committee jim jordan. house republicans led by jordan launched an investigation into how willis has handled that investigation accusing her of being politically motivated by issuing indictments of donald trump and others and in her response she did not hold back saying in the letter that jordan was trying to obstruct criminal proceedings in her state and also saying this, your attempts to invoke congressional authority to intrude upon and interfere with an active criminal case in georgia is flagrantly at odds with the constitution, going on to write, the defendants in this case have been charged under state law with committing state crimes. there is absolutely no support for congress purporting to second-guess or somehow supervise an ongoing criminal investigation and prosecution. joining us right now is democratic congresswoman from pennsylvania mad lean dean, an impeachment manager during donald trump's second impeachment, also sits on the judiciary committee. tha

it looks like fani willis has the edge on that one. she's appealed to the judge's better angels by saying, judge, this isn't about looking at every overt act in the indictment, it's about deciding whether or not mark meadows was engaged in his official function as the president's chief of staff or whether he was sidelining as a campaign worker when he engaged and entered into this rico conspiracy. so you look at the rico conspiracy as a whole. she makes a pretty powerful argument that he's working for the campaign, not the presidency at that point. and we'll see how the federal judge rules. that issue is ready for his ruling at any point in time. if we do end up with -- yeah? >> i was going to say, he asked for the transcripts, which were put out yesterday. so question assume he and his folks are looking through that now and trying to come to a decision. >> well, yes. i think that that's absolutely right. and we'll see, will that decision rest solely with the district judge or end up in front of the 11th circuit court of appeals? which

fani willis put on a good show maintaining that up to the last minute, she would go to trial with all of the 19 defendants, and she did note that she did a rico case in georgia, the georgia school officials case where she tried 13 rico defendant, and she can do it. she waited a long time not withstanding pronouncement that the indictments would be imminent, and she got the ducks in a row to go to trial, and now we have two tranches and that may be split up even further, but the issue is timing, and fani willis made it clear that it cannot be the case that three trials are going on simultaneously, and this is the switch of the defendants giving up the speedy trial rights in exchange for going forward for the motions for severance, and so this is going to be putting the clock in order, and i would venture to say that i don't know if the october 23rd date is going to hold. >> because? >> well, mark meadows is going with the appeal in the 7th circuit and moving quickly for that removal issue, but it is murky if all of the defendants would be removed to federal court, and if they are succe

i don't think that's going to be the case with fani willis. i know that won't be the case with her. as fearless. but it should be deeply troubling to all of us, no matter what our party affiliation is. >> do you see these threats is an extension of the way from former president trump has targeted prosecutors but particularly prosecutors of color who he has called, i don't think even reverse, he's called them racist. is this the harvest of those seeds? >> absolutely. what you've seen over the past several years is that this underbelly, this hatred, simmering beneath the surface so long has now been given permission to make its face nonna. and i think it's come directly from the top. it is come from donald trump. he is the podium in the white house to say hateful things. he uses his bully pulpit. he continues to do that. and we have to remember there is violence directed towards elected officials. we know what, happened what speaker pelosi's husband, we've seen congress people targeted in the past, so this is not something that we are talking about in the abstract. this is something th

the a fani willis wants to begin to go to trial at the end of october. we are talking about 45 days or so for all of these cases to come together, all of the motions to be considered and i think that there is a big question as to how that is going to happen. >> so, greg, we have a lot of conversation now about federal court versus state court but, even if mark meadows was successful in his quest to move to federal court, fani willis and her team still would have tried the case. so, what exactly is the advantage of federal court or do you think, as charles noted, that this is just a delay tactic? >> well, it is a delay tactic but if it is removed to federal court, there is a federal judge, there is no cameras likely in the courtroom because in federal court in georgia and elsewhere and other jurisdictions don't allow cameras in the courtroom so it's much more closed off and less transparent process, but i think the biggest issue is that you have a federal jury pool. a bigger jury pool. fulton county, joe biden won fulton county by 72% of the vote. it woul

fani willis in her office is going to be ready to go.o be something of a recalibration in terms of how to deal with the remaining 17 defendants. whether they are going to proceed in october. i imagine what we will ultimately see, alex, is going to be these defendants grouped in tried in clusters. that is what is often the case in regard cases that involve a large number of defendants. what will be most practical for the cases of this nature. despite what fani willis initially said at the press conference tonight, wanting to try all 19, it's just simply not practical. i think you get a sense of that from the judge at the hearing. trust and believe that powell in chesebro are going to be moving forward. >> let me ask you both the last question asked you answered quickly. the prosecution says it is going to present 150 witnesses and unexpected for month-long trial. does that mean donald trump will be sitting in the courtroom and potentially off of the campaign trail for a full third of the year? kristie, you first. >> she said that there we

so those are some things that fani willis would be thinking about. they could also be thinking about whether or not they can prove that conviction beyond reasonable doubt. where is that the grand jury stage, it's just probable cause, which is a relatively low standard. so i think that one reason why we see some of these people being charged, and not others, it has to do with all of those decisions that prosecutors are thinking about. >> morgan, i, and i'm sure most of my viewers, without legal training, this is all new to them, special grand jury, is a lot of people didn't know how grandeur is worked. now we're all learning as we go along. there's an interesting footnote in the special grand jury report. i just want to distinguish, the special grand jury was the one that was convened for this along time ago, not the one that came up with this indictment, or that voted on this indictment. there is a special footnote in there, in which it says, quote, one of the descending jurors voted against recommending seeking indictments of former senators purdue

d.a., fani willis, once all

but of course fani willis has rights here too. and she's continuing to argue that these defendants should all be tried together in state court. now it's in the hands of the judges. >> so assuming they stay in georgia, the judge made it clear, it seemed like this was going to happen, but now he has affirmed it. cameras are going to be in the courtroom. something we have never seen of a trial of this magnitude. you could argue there's never been a trial of this magnitude. what's your thought about it, pros and cons? >> so i think it's all pros. this is 2023. every state system in the country virtually uses cameras in the courtrooms, and we've seen this before in georgia. we saw ahmaud arbery, who was murdered by two men with racist motives in georgia, that trial play out on television. so people were able to see the evidence, and here's why that's important, chris. there's nothing like looking at the witnesses and hearing the evidence to help communities understand what's really going on in a situation. here with the former presiden

i think that does create a bit of a problem for fani willis.ld think that telling the story once with everybody in the chair might be a little smoother. i can see it also how it could be, i've seen this in federal court quite a few times, i can see how these sort of lower hanging fruit case that you bring could kind of be a trial run. but all of these motions, steph, all these fights over federal remover, severance, speedy trial, and then some, it's going to take a lot of time. and ultimately, aides donald trump's goal of putting this off. >> and puts a lot more money in all of these lawyers pockets. there's a lot of billable hours ahead of. us neal, you want to weigh in on this? >> look, i think that there is, i think, some tension in what chesebro and what powell is doing what trump's ultimate strategy. today, they're basically suggesting they're out of the loop and blaming the other. and the fake electors, for their part, are saying they're following orders. another three other defendants, including her friend jeffrey clark, who's saying tha

>> well, they're calling fani willis' bluff. is she actually ready?case, we presumed she's ready, but they're saying, well, maybe not. if she has to get ready while dealing with defendants and pretrial motions and subsequent investigations after indictment, that's a lot for one office to handle, a lot for prosecutors to handle at one time. so, i think they are testing her. and frankly i think maybe -- we talked about whether this is a coordinated ploy. i can't speak to that. but i think there are going to be benefits to the remaining defendants seeing these folks go first. >> speaking of who's going first, can we talk about this? this is the mystery of the day that everyone is talking about. mark meadows obviously testified for several hours on monday. he is trying to move his case -- we should find out soon if he is successful in that. but in her filing today, fani willis responded making this point, saying that, after insisting he did not play any role in the coordination of slates of fake electors throughout several states, the defendant was forced

they were not indicted by disputed tierney fani willis, nor was mike flynn. the top -- and boris epshteyn. many familiar names there. why were they not indict it? what separates them from the ones that they were? >> why they were not indictment, will probably never get an answer at this point. now is that second grand jury at fulton county that was seated to make a determination on whether a true bill would be tanya, it does not necessarily mean that fani willis will pursue charges. remember, that special grand jury, the one in the report released yesterday, isn't entirely different body doing an investigative effort. taking in evidence, listening to witnesses, making recommendations only. the special grand jurors, not lawyers, no legal training, no legal background, just considering the evidence that is putting put in front of them. making that recommendation to have this georgia statutes that apply. i would, you know, tell people, look out. your record looking right now at your screen, at these recommended for indictment but did not get charged folks. you'l

ultimately district attorney fani willis, the team, only indicted 19. you just suggested maybe some of the 20 she did not indict, maybe they were ultimately cooperating and that might have been part of it. do we have any specific insight? >> we don't have any insight at all why she didn't pursue some beyond looking at the vote tallies. if you have seven people suggesting you don't recommend charges against someone in a grand jury, you're not going to want to bring a case against that person in a real courtroom, right, because this is much more friendly arena for prosecutors. there's no defense present asian, so that must have been a factor. but, look, it's extraordinary we can see these votes, see these recommendations and these names. special grand jury information is not typically made public, so cnn and other media outlets pushed to get this released. it's really extraordinary to have it, at least this little insight into this historic case, but we do not know why fani willis made the decision she did. >> interesting. i want to turn now to cnn's capi

let's talk about fani willis did today. he's asking the court to potentially protect and conceal potential jurors identities. what do we need to know about? this it's very important for peoples safety and security. >> the motion that was filed today ask the basically the defendants, the media, the courts do nothing to discuss lows anything about potential jurors. or panel, jurors once these cases go to trial or trials. that comes from something that already happened at the grand jury that delivered to the indictment, their names and addresses more formation posted online. there were death threats and harassments. the personal information was put online. a lot of racist rhetoric around it and long forsman's investigating. given the high-profile nature of this case and given all the media attention in the live stream capability. she's asking the drainage that they're doing everything within the legal realm to protect these peoples identities from further harassment especially the people in 2024 and beyond delivering a guilty

also today, georges fulton county district attorney fani willis told jim jordan that he is an utter buffoon. but she didn't say it that way because she is a much better writer than i am. she sent a nine-page letter to jim jordan, the non lawyer, who is the republican chairman of the house judiciary committee. it was or applied to his challenging letter to her that he sound last month. district attorney willis's letter starts off being relatively polite about jim jordan's lying, saying, your letter contains inaccurate information and misleading statements. on page two, she warmed up a bit, saying your attempt to invoke congressional authority to intrude upon an interfere with an active criminal case in georgia is flagrantly at odds with the constitution. the defendants in this case have been charged under state law with committing state crimes. there is absolutely no support for congress purporting to second guess or somehow supervise an ongoing challenge of criminal investigation and prosecution. your public statements and your letter itself make clear that you lack any legitimate legislati

but district attorney fani willis is brief today was, for me, surprisingly convincing that if the law does not apply to former federal officials. district attorney willis says only current federal officers may remove state actions to federal court. the law in question grants the right to move cases from state to federal court to, quote, any officer of the united states. , andistrict attorney willis's brief points out that another section of the same law specifies that that section applies to anyone, quote, who is or at the time the alleged action accrued was was a civil officer of the united states. district attorney willis's point there was that federal law does know how to specify that it applies to former government officials. and district attorney willis cites a finding in another case saying where congress includes particulate language in one section of the statute, but omits it in another section of the same act, it is generally presume that congress acts intentionally and purposely in the disparate inclusion or exclusion the, for congress knows how to say something but chooses