i think not everyone plans, because i remember the soviet cartoon about vovka in the far away kingdom, pies, or something, and he was perplexed. eh, vovka asks the question, what will you eat yourself, of course, we will eat it ourselves and throw ourselves over you. that is, you are no longer needed, in that's the point. well, what should you do, you need to stop somehow. well, i'll try to be very brief, but there's danger. what is the danger? eh, this is what i say, partly what i think myself. that is, i definitely agree with what i’m about to say, but this and what scares me much more is what they themselves think, and what the developers think is what scares them. and i didn’t come up with this word. they were scared; the most honest of them were scared. uh, two things, firstly, the speed of development of these things is calculated in days. you see, when we spoke before, we spoke in 15 years, in 20 in 30. these days are our physiological nature. three cameras on the phone can't keep up with this. but i don’t need them, and tomorrow there will be eight cameras. for what? yes, this

far away. but this story out of the united kingdom where their equivalent of our fbi government officials theypying for china is something that can happen here. look, we saw it with representative swalwell. i can tell you they have been trying to spy on city council men, county commissioners. this is a deep effort by what they call their united front. it's their propaganda campaign here inside the united states. these are real efforts. you talked about them being in our universities. they will certainly come after elected officials, those around them. donors and the like attempting to steer america towards the ideas of the chinese communist party and away from the central understandings of america. >> well, one thing that we have seen is a relentless push and promotion by corporate elites to continue u.s. corporate engagement with china, mr. secretary. you and i have talked about this for years. but is there not more evidence day after day that decoupling, divesting from china and every critical industry is what we should be doing right now? >> well, there is no doubt that the chinese communis