here are two -- i think this must be you, ed felten. could the panelists discuss what they think their tesla -- i had to ask what that was -- of today, what technologies of data flow analysis could or should be built in? i know you've covered a great deal of this before, so if you could just give us kind of one or two-sentence summary on it, that would be fine. >> in a sense, the question is asking me to sum up sort of a whole area of knowledge in a few seconds. >> yes, i understand. >> which i won't try to do. i would simply say that as with cars, as with the tesla, you know, some sort of high-end car, you should think in terms of which technologies are available and reasonably practical to use to minimize, control or limit the risk of certain information practice. and then ask that those be there. that you should ask that an entity that wants to collect and use the information be willing to justify the choices they've made and be willing to justify why they did not use some accepted technical privacy preserving technical method if it

professor felten talked about abuse of information in breach.how would you strike the balance between collection, collection rules and use rules? >> that's a very good question, every difficult one. i don't know if in the technology, i don't know if we really know where the balance is. when you take a look at the system, take a look at the capable is, take a look at, in effect all of these impact all of these exploits are becoming so advanced that i used to be the one concrete example. i used to me to be physically around the engine has to be able to lift a fingerprint and then have access to your phone and then use that fingerprint to mount an attack and use your biometrics. with the resolution of the cameras that we have these days, sometimes, very high resolution camera i just need to have your picture that was taken somewhere in china to be able to zoom and zoom in to lift your finger print and mount an attack. how did reflect things like this collection we build systems that whenever there's a finger print it smudges it and we don't expose

>> the record, and i urge you to look very closely, as i know you will, the affidavits of edward felten, which are unrefuted other than the denials of the federal government, which are frankly not to be believed, the reality is that this can be pieced together from what they have to identify information and to in fact locate where a person is, the duration of their communication and every aspect of their social and professional lives. >> can you tell us where to look carefully to find out where metadata collecting shows where a person is? don't tell me to look carefully. tell me where to look to show where a person is? >> what i'm saying is this -- -- you i'm asking you is made the statement just now that the metadata they're getting would show where a person is. i'm asking you to tell me where in the record i would find that. >> you'll find it in the affidavits of edward felton. >> i'm looking at it right now. i'm trying to find treatment of the trunk aspect which i don't. he seems to make a very good case that once you get to what i call the third step, the actual analysis of the data