in partnership with ferc. >> mr. terry, you're recognized. >> thank you. the follow-up on that, have you read the grid act or the oposal othe draft? >> so as it's written now, my assumption is you don't support it. is that accurate you wouldn't support it as written? >> i applaud the committee for taking initiative. >> i've got a short time. yes or no? >> i support parts of it, not the entire -- >> the jurisdictional part you have a problem with? >> with the vulnerabilities being unnecessary, that's correct. >> mr. lawson, same question. >> we support narrow authority with the federal government with regard to imminent cyber threats. that's where we are. >> so that's a no? okay. i appreciate that. i just think we have more work to do than i anticipated before this hring. mr. cramer, i want to spend the rest of the time with you. do you keep track, was there reporting of hacking attempts to your -- to your office or any office that you know of? >> just so we're clear, i'm a former assistant secretary, and i'm testifyi

in partnership with ferc. >> mr. terry, you're recognized. >> thank you. the follow-up on that, have you read the grid act or the proposal of the draft? >> so as it's written now, my assumption is you don't support it. is that accurate you wouldn't support it as written? >> i applaud the committee for taking initiative. >> i've got a short time. yes or no? >> i support parts of it, not the entire -- >> the jurisdictional part you have a problem with? >> with the vulnerabilities being unnecessary, that's correct. >> mr. lawson, same question. >> we support narrow authority with the federal government with regard to imminent cyber threats. that's where we are. >> so that's a no? okay. i appreciate that. i just think we have more work to do than i anticipated before this hearing. mr. cramer, i want to spend the rest of the time with you. do you keep track, was there reporting of hacking attempts to your -- to your office or any office that you know of? >> just so we're clear, i'm a former assistant secretary, and i'm te

in partnership with ferc. >> mr. terry, you're recognized. >> thank you. the follow-up on that, have you read the grid act or the proposal of the draft? >> so as it's written now, my assumption is you don't support it. is that accurate you wouldn't support it as written? >> i applaud the committee for taking initiative. >> i've got a short time. yes or no? >> i support parts of it, not the entire -- >> the jurisdictional part you have a problem with? >> with the vulnerabilities being unnecessary, that's correct. >> mr. lawson, same question. >> we support narrow authority with the federal government with regard to imminent cyber threats. that's where we are. >> so that's a no? okay. i appreciate that. i just think we have more work to do than i anticipated before this hearing. mr. cramer, i want to spend the rest of the time with you. do you keep track, was there reporting of hacking attempts to your -- to your office or any office that you know of? >> just so we're clear, i'm a former assistant secretary, and i'm te

ferc, dhs and doe recently completed a joint study. man-madend naturally-occurring events and their effects on the power system and measures that could be installed. included among its findings was wiout effective mitigation, if the solar storm of 1921, which has been termed the 1-100 year event were to occur today, over 300 extra high voltage transformers could be damaged or destroyed, interrupting power to 130 million people for a period of years. though section 215 of the federal power act can't provide an adequate statutory foundation for the development of routine reliability standards to the bulk power system, the threat of cyber attacks or other intent n intentional malicious acts against the grid are different. these dangers may be posed by criminal organizations, terrorist groups, foreign nations or others intent on attacking the united states through its electrical grid. widespread disruption of electrical service can undermine our government, our military, our economy, as well as endanger the health and safety of millions of

joseph mcclelland, who is the director of office of electricity -- electric reliability at ferc. so welcome to the hearing and thank you all for taking time to be with us and so give us your expertise and thoughts on this issue. so at this time, ms. hoffman, i will recognize you for a 5-minute opening statement. and i would just point out that there's little devices on the top of the table that has the red, green and yellow light, and when it turns he red, we would like maybe having you thinking about coming to an end but we won't hold you strictly to that. ms. hoffman, you're recognized for five minutes. >> good afternoon, mr. chairman, members of the committee, i would like to extend my thanks to the chairman and esteemed members of the committee for inviting me here today to discuss cybersecurity issues facing the electric industry as well as potential legislation intended to strengthen protection of the bulk power system and the electric infrastructure. ensuring a resilient electric grid is particularly important since it is arguably the most complex and critical infrastructu

ferc simple under the alternate of scenario by the cbo, which assumes most current policies are extended the deficit is projected to be about 6.5% in 2020, and almost 13% of gdp in 2013. the ratio of the outstanding federal debt to gdp expected about 69% at the end of this fiscal year would under that scenario rise to 87% in 2020 and 146% in 2013. one reason the debt is projected to increase quickly is the larger the debt outstanding, the greater the budgetary cost of making the required interest payments. this dynamic is clearly unsustainable. the nation's long-term fiscal imbalances did not emerge overnight. a significant extent they are the result of an aging population and fast rising health care cost which have been predicted for decades. the cbo projects the federal outlays for health care entitlements which were 5% of gdp in 2010 could rise to more than 8% of gdp. even though the projected fiscal imbalances associated with social security systems are smaller than those with federal health programs, the too are significant. although we've been born but the development for many year

places the civil war was like the kind of civil war that we think of today in a place like bin zazi fercsable or baghdad recently. it place of a very personal kind of violence come and one place i talked about in my book is st. louis, missouri where before any of these noble louis and gray battles were fought there was street fighting going on with civilians being mowed down in the streets of st. louis and it involved when you mentioned the know nothings it involved immigrants to a significant extent. i've tried in my book to include these people coming to america playing significant roles and the image and that martin scorsese movie is the image of the irish immigrants stepping off the boat and being handed guns before they know where they really are. you remember this in the movie, and i think that's sort of tarnished the irish immigrants reputation unfairly for a lot of people. and in fact i found there were a lot of irish immigrants who were idealistic for the union cause but the experience themselves knowing what it was like to live under a sort of all the arctic tyrannical regime a

the first a lot of the great research and development minds are being siphoned off in the government ferc. nobody is replacing them and there's a fixed number of geniuses and if they are doing this they can't be doing r & d work. the incentives they were offering under was very unheat. and there was numerical machine tool company and the japanese developed it inexpensively, the germans developed it inexpensive. the u.s. machine developed but so expensively that no private firm can buy it. it's because they are operating -- now the pentagon could buy it and did but they're operating completely under different incentives. i mean, these are issues that need to be considered. all this stuff has to be on the table. but ultimately what we're talking about here is more than just about spending or balanced budgets or debt. ultimately, it is about right and wrong. and here i want to close but it's a long close. i'm building up to something, okay? [laughter] >> i want to close with a little story from robert elsick who was a harvard philosopher wrote a book called "anarchy, state and utopia." they

the work is being done by the laboratory who works of the fbi ferc sable tubercular forensics at the beginning with regard to in trucks letters we may be able to reconstruct history with regard to how long the fungus has been in europe and parts disbursed even to the point of pinpointing a source for how can the united states. stomachs of the will provide more information about that natural history? >> when you talk about humans being the potential factor of this i don't think you are really meaning that somehow they become temporary hosts but perhaps some of the year that sort of thing. >> inadvertent mechanical transmission. >> so is there a treatment perhaps? >> we can educate our backpackers and cave explorers when you finish your work in one that you give a certain treatment process that may be very helpful. >> it is the case there are elements to the white-nose syndrome response beyond our control and others within our means and those within our means include regulatory measures like site closures, decontamination procedures and as close to the kid recommendations and these oth

may 18th and released on the white house website, did any of them come from the fcc, the ftc, cpsc, ferc or the nrc? >> nope. >> what will be your next step to address it? >> i'm hopeful, and i said in writing and i will say right now that we would very much like the independent agencies to engage in this look back process. >> i've got to tell you the american people are hopeful for jobs and you'll troubled. they are getting tired of this and they are expecting us to take some action. and what you are doing with sending out all these regulations is wrong if it's going to have a $100 million in pact we are going to pull it in here and hold dewaal accountable and the american people are going to hold you accountable for this. you've got to find a way to get these agencies to get some of this regulation of the book. let me ask you about one and a half minutes left the accountable care organizations. health care in the tennessee is a very important industrial sector for us. the proposed rule on the accountable care organization is incomprehensible. huge it's incomprehensible. there is a grou

may 18th and released on the white house website, did any of them come from the fcc, the ftc, cpsc, ferc or the nrc? >> nope. >> what will be your next step to address it? >> i'm hopeful, and i said in writing and i will say right now that we would very much like the independent agencies to engage in this look back process. >> i've got to tell you the american people are hopeful for jobs and you'll troubled. they are getting tired of this and they are expecting us to take some action. and what you are doing with sending out all these regulations is wrong if it's going to have a $100 million in pact we are going to pull it in here and hold dewaal accountable and the american people are going to hold you accountable for this. you've got to find a way to get these agencies to get some of this regulation of the book. let me ask you about one and a half minutes left the accountable care organizations. health care in the tennessee is a very important industrial sector for us. the proposed rule on the accountable care organization is incomprehensible. huge it's incomprehensible. there is a grou

. >> it is interesting because ferc has a some authority of this, and but they just get to review the standards put forward by the kind of industries and groups that come up with them. not think has really happened. this is the discussion we had in the 1990's and having it again now. nothing has changed. perhaps the ability of hackers, whether they are nation states or kids, has grown. there is legislation pending on the hill and it is part of the president's own initiatives to have different approaches to cyber attacks. but my bias is putting aside whether we have definitive evidence of someone doing something really malicious, and right now is clearly a vulnerability and we have to find a way to address it. we need to mandate standards from congress, and that is my personal opinion. then you probably have to find a way to finance it because the utility companies, for better or worse, they really do not want to do anything. they have to pass the costs on. if you do not have a basis for doing that, they will not spend the money. i actually think we should pick off of the grid and get

may 18th and released on the white house website, did any of them come from the fcc, the ftc, cpsc, ferc or the nrc? >> nope. >> what will be your next step to address it? >> i'm hopeful, and i said in writing and i will say right now that we would very much like the independent agencies to engage in this look back process. >> i've got to tell you the american people are hopeful for jobs and you'll troubled. they are getting tired of this and they are expecting us to take some action. and what you are doing with sending out all these regulations is wrong if it's going to have a $100 million in pact we are going to pull it in here and hold dewaal accountable and the american people are going to hold you accountable for this. you've got to find a way to get these agencies to get some of this regulation of the book. let me ask you about one and a half minutes left the accountable care organizations. health care in the tennessee is a very important industrial sector for us. the proposed rule on the accountable care organization is incomprehensible. huge it's incomprehensible. there is a grou