ferdinando nelli feroci, president of the institute of international affairs and former permanent representative of italy to the european union. a warm welcome to you all. thank you for joining us today on inside story. when talking about this issue, we must not forget the plight of so many people, whether they are migrants or refugees, who are so deborah spirit -- desperate that they take these dangerous journeys in order to try to start a new life. so many people perish and they are trying to cross the sea. you yourself were able to reach italy in 2014. i want to ask you about that journey. >> thank you so much for having me. when you were talking about people going down while trying to cross the sea to get a better life, this is not something people do for fun. this is not something that people who are happy just decide i am going to do this. these are people who are have been very tough time. desperate times call for desperate measures. it is not something anyone should go through willingly unless they are 100% forced to do so by the pressure of life or what kind of situation they are going