police brutality. the u.s. department of justice later announced it was launching a broad civil rights investigation into the practices of the ferguson police department. separate from its investigation of the michael brown shooting. the for this group and the community they represent their underlying message is unlikely to change. their calls for justice are bigger than just ferguson michael brown. were. there about fighting to change a system they say is stacked against them from birth. ferguson says he on the sage from the faultline series finding rewind return to ferguson to see what changed and how far the community has managed to move on. award winning st louis filmmaker chrysalis lives just a few meters from where mike brown was shot has a unique perspective on the divisions that remain in ferguson today i've lived in ferguson in excess of 13 years. you know this is basically this was home for me but in this part of town this is where all of your social public services are this is where your economic development is emphasizing this is predominately where or for the most part where most of your white residents stay. so as we go

over 70% are brand new to the ferguson police department, not brand new to policing but to the fergusonce department so it's diverse. they went from having three african-americans and three women on the department when i got there to over 50% african-american and about a third women when i left so it's a much more diverse force. it's a much more well-trained force, and a better force that works more closely with the community. >> well, captain, we appreciate the work that you've done. we know you had a lot of challenges there, and it's good to hear of some positive change that can happen in the wake of incidents like this, so we wish you the best of luck going forward. >> thank you very much. i really appreciate it. >> great to hear from him. so overnight you've probably seen this, protesters in virginia tearing down a statue of confederate -- of the president of the confederacy, jefferson davis, and that's just the latest monument to come down in cities across the country. usaa was made for right now. and right now, is a time for action. so, for a second time we're giving members a cre

the police was revealed and the fact that the tear gas that was being used those occupied palestine was the same tear gas that was being used and ferguson we've learned that many police departments including smart ones like the ferguson police department have received anti insurgency training by the israeli military and also i heard so many apple s police oversee training from israel i'm not sure about the particular offices have been accused of the murder of george floyd but i think we need to remember that there is still an important collection between struggles in the us and struggles and power stand this connection was made and the 960 s. it was made again in 24 g. and it needs to be emphasized today what is it about palestine that is so important the european union is against boycott divestment sanctions over here in britain the labor party its war in china foreign secretary says it's the semitic to condemn atrocities by the israeli government was palestine relevant to what we're seeing about george floyd well how this time has taught us a great deal about resistance about. the insurance resistance and we've learned a great deal about the president just real complex by look

ferguson between police and the community right now? i know you are new to the job, but what are you saying? >> right now the ferguson police departmentng diligently to communicate with the youth and the people of ferguson. at this time, they have started different functions with the youth. they are communicating with the people, so the relationship is getting better. >> captain johnson, people became very familiar with you and your approach. you literally were putting your arms around people trying to bridge that divide between the community and ferguson and police. but not all police departments have the capacity to approach situations like that. or in your view, should they all have the capacity to do that? >> they should all have the capacity. and i believe they all do. it is tough. i always say it's going up to the porch and someone says, don't go through my gate, but you keep knocking at that gate until someone lets you in and you begin to have that conversation. >> mayor-elect, biases, we're talking about that, how judgments really color people's actions. how are you hoping to convey to that community that people need to approa

second department of justice report, which is perhaps more important, was the one about the ferguson police departmentnd pointed out that the police department had been essentially a predatory force on the african-american community of ferguson. they had been essentially using their power and authority to levy fines on as many different people as they could in order to fill the city's coffers. the city was running itself on tickets. and so cops were encouraged to write tickets for everything. when you see the things that the police force had been engaged in the previous couple of years, your jaw drops. this is a town where the african-american community was so completely alienated from the police force because of the way the police force was behaving, and that's the context for ferguson. so really you have a -- if you only look at the encounter, you miss the real story, the real story is what happened before, years and years and years of the police force essentially using the black community like an a.t.m. in the way that no police force is supposed to do. it is funny, so one of the d.o.j. reports tha

and the ferguson police department and we have seen the families over time, this isn't a new movementor long enough knows this isn't new but it is different. and to see this change happening because of this case, the reason why this has changed and if you talk to people about why is this sparking a different kind of cord, families have been through the pain and seen it now with this, right? this has told us a lot of what's going on between black folks and police. the worst of it to be honest. but what we have seen in this case is there was no question about the before and the after. in all the other cases there was always an argument that before what you saw on camera there was something else going on that caused the reaction by police officers. in this case, we watched the before on the security cameras and we saw the before and after on a cell phone. a bystander decided that she was going to make sure that she recorded this because she saw something that was absolutely wrong in her mind as she was watching it happen. without all that we wouldn't be having this conversation but what

investigation in ferguson led to a pattern of practices of discrimination, inquiry into the ferguson police departmentwhere you see all sorts of those kind of consent decrees in the aftermath of police violence. what typically is going to happen is the public is going to learn that the police can be constitutionally violent. all of the people killed by police, all of the no-knock raids we see that don't become viral, all of that is within the bounds of the constitution. and so if the fbi do an inquiry and find in this one case that it was outside the realm of what they believe is supposed to be okay, there may be some noise, but again, unless we completely and fundamentally abolish and change the policing structure of this country, we're going to continue city that. and just because it won't be a viral hashtag for us to pay attention to, we must continue to resist it. >> thank you. >>> in new york city, a demonstrator was detained by federal immigration officials while at a protest for george floyd. the immigrant defense project posted this video of the incident and says the man is a u.s. citizen of p

even outside of the violent concerns, the ways in which the police departments are used, and we saw this in ferguson, the ways in which police departments are used as a revenue stream disproportionately falls on the shoulders of black and browned communities as well, that also effaces the possibility of trust between the communities and police departments. they're not there to protect people, they're there to generate revenue by -- >> let me just interrupt, jelani, just to put some meat on the bones that you're talking about. in the case of ferguson, small police department, not enough revenue in the place really to even justify the way it's run, so everybody got a ticket for something. and a lot of young african-americans got tickets for things that became fines that when they were not paid became warrants. a lot of parents expressed concerns that as soon as their kids got a driver's license, that's their on-ramp to the police department because that's how police stations and towns run on the back of tickets. >> talk to people in atlanta about that and see if it's applicable to the same thing. not

administration launched initiative to allow the justice department to investigate police departments as they did in fergusone. the trump administration backpedaled on that, unrolled that. shortly before that, president obama announced an initiative to stop selling surplus military equipment to police departments. the trump administration undid that as well. there's a long list. he's just making things up and he did it again yesterday. >>> good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it's wednesday, june 17th. along with joe, willie and me, we have white house reporter for the associated press jonathan lemire and msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele is with us this morning. we have a lot to get to. president trump's executive order aimed at police reform. we'll tell you what's in it and whether it goes far enough. there is a new poll out of michigan to show you this morning that has joe biden up big in that key state. and the latest on the book donald trump really, really, really doesn't want anyone to read. the trump administration now suing its former

point my tenure as head of the justice department civil rights division began 2 months after 18 year old michael brown was killed by a police officer in ferguson the justice department was hardly perfect but we understood our mandate to promote accountability and constitutional policing in order to build community trust during the obama administration we opened 25 pattern of practice investigations to help realize greater structural and community center change often at the request of police chiefs and mayors who needed federal leadership after making findings we negotiated consent decrees with extensive engagement and input from community advocates who not only identified unjust unlawful policing practices but also helped develop sustainable mechanisms for accountability and systemic change. that is not the justice department that we have today under both attorneys general jeff sessions and bill barr the department has abdicated its responsibility in abandon the use of tools like pattern practice investigations and concentric freeze instead it is focused on dismantling police accountability efforts and halting any new investigations the disrup

police department, what are your thoughts? >> well, listen, this isn't the first time that a police department has been dismantled. that happened over in the fergusonouri, before ferguson, it was another police department. so if you have officers who are inclined to misbehave and a police chief who coddles, shelters, and condones it, it's time for a move in a different direction. >> and before i let you go, what does that mean? >> what would dismantling a city police force mean? how could they continue to protect the public? >> it could mean giving jurisdiction to a neighboring county, sheriff's, certainly, that's happened in los angeles. there are parts of los angeles that are carved up and are serviced by l.a. county sheriff's department. so i would imagine that something like that could happen. your not going to dismantle it without having something to put in place immediately, so why not put something that's working efficiently. >> is that how you interrupt this also? >> somewhat. i think when people talk about dismantling and use that term, it's a bit of a misnomer. i think what they're really talking about is reorganization and reenvisioning

and the officers we had here in the ferguson police department, we understand that and respect that. and you saw that in the exchange between the officers and the people that were out protesting last night. and so, you know, if we can keep that kind of energy going in this community where it's just about voicing your frustration, voicing your pain, i can always sit and listen to that and web talk about ways to make the community better, ways to make the police department better. we can't do that when we have crime, destruction and chaos going on in the city. and so, you know, we want to continue to encourage people to do things peacefully, and that's the power that that can have. >> but it also has to be the posturing from your officers. some of these protests have been peaceful and the police still sprayed tear gas into the crowd, still antagonized the protesters and pushed them back into a space where they didn't feel comfortable. last night i was in the middle of it. you had protesters in the middle of the street past curfew, but because they were peaceful, we watched them be allo

police department's and onto our streets. >> itwe try militarizing the police after ferguson ? >> i file legislation back in 2014. after being, after the nation saw militarized police responding to the full demonstrators on the streets. of ferguson missouri. it shocked the conscience to see that and that legislation has been filed each session of congress since then. and it is only at this point that we have had a vehicle under which we could get this legislation passed because even though it has, even though the stock militarizing law enforcement act had accumulated almost 75 signatures, on its own, as standalone legislation still was not enough to get through the house but making it with the george floyd justice in policing act has gotten the job done so i'm very gratified aboutthat . >> were talking this morning with johnson, democrat from georgia and member of the house judiciary, that's the committee the george floyd justice in policing came through to get to the house floor and the force passed yesterday , 236 to 181 area three republicans running all the democrats in the house on that legislation and if yo

police departments. over 16,000 police departments in the united states. as a director of the cops office, i had to work with a lot of them which included going to ferguson, baltimore, working with the san francisco police department with their reform. we did a review of ferguson to understand what went right and what went wrong. 50 caliber weapons, militarization of the police. we know their roadmaps out there. when michael brown was killed, president obama created a task force and 21st century policing and i served as the executive director and traveled around the country with the task force with listening sessions listening to experts, victims, and families and academics and union and police officers and sheriffs trying to identify the best methods moving forward. i appreciate the governors stance. we don't have time to relitigate the causes her it we know the -- the causes. we know the causes. what we need to do is focus on the remedies and to move forth so we turn these plans that do exist into actions. for me, i was there during rodney king as a cop. i was there during freddie gray in the obama administration. each one was a certain movement. i do be

policing and restore trust between law enforcement pan-- and the communities they serve. justice department civil rights division investigated civil rights abuses in multiple police departments across the country. baltimore, ferguson, missouri, cleveland, and yes, chicago, illinois. unfortunately, the current president dismantled these efforts as soon as he took control of the department of justice in 2017. in this heartbreaking moment of crisis, america is pleading with us for leadership. president trump and attorney general barr could demonstrate that leadership by implementing the recommendations of the task force the 21st century policing and permitting the civil rights division to do its job and vigorously investigate police departments accused of engaging in a pattern or practice of misconduct. we have a role to play here, too. we must immediately hold hearings on systemic racism and police misconduct so that we can discuss and pursue solutions including accountability and training. chairman graham of the senate judiciary committee announced the committee will hold a hearing on police misconduct. i'm glad that he made that statement. i hope it's more than just one token hearing. when i chaired the senate jou

if we restarted in 1st started some police departments we had chronic problems and we're chronically engaged in corruption excessive force abusive fines like ferguson was what if we restarted and fresh started some police departments that might be something that everybody wants people who are not out there protesting but who are concerned about justice and people who are out there protesting and who believe that some departments are so rotten to the core that you really need to maybe dismantle them and rebuild them but i myself have not made that call but i do say listen to the voices in the streets don't dismiss them they're smarter than you think they are. do you feel 'd keith that we're at an inflection point on race in this country does this feel different to you this time i mean you've been witness to so many other protests and points that seem like maybe this was going to be something that we had you know moved to a healthier place i'm just sort of into this as are we going to be looking back a few years from now on say wow we missed a big opportunity here we certainly have the opportunity to be at an inflection point we have a great opportun

idea that's come out of nowhere, this, you know, restructuring the police department came from the killing of michael brown in fergusonri. but what pressure would this put on cities if they look to restructure police departments vis-a-vis their relationships with police unions? >> well, listen, the unions are a lobbying arm of the police department, and they have a part in it, part of it is to coddle and shelter officers who complete misconduct. it's not rocket science. how do you have a police officer like derek chauvin on a police department with 18 personnel complaints. why do we have to wait until something makes national news. you have 57 officers who he decd to quit the emergency response team. to support an officer who shoved a 75-year-old man and now the mayor in buffalo is trying to sm explain that this guy was told to leave and he didn't and somehow it justified those officers. if that 75-year-old man was violating the law, why didn't they just arrest him? you don't shove people down. >> and you have to wonder if there wasn't video where we would be right now with tra that story, with the george floyd story.

head of the justice monthsent began two after michael brown was killed by a police officer in ferguson. the justice department was hardly perfect. we understood our mandate, to promote accountability and promote police -- policing to build trust. 25 investigations to help realize greater structural and community centered change, often at the request of police chiefs and mayors who needed federal leadership. after making findings, we negotiated consent decrees with engagement and input from community advocates not only andt i -- identified unjust unlawful policing practices but developed mechanisms for accountability and systemic change. that's not the justice department we have today. under attorney general's jeff session and bill barr, the department has advocated its responsibility and has abandoned its tools. instead it has focused on dismantling police accountability efforts and halting new investigations. the disruption of the crucial work in the civil rights division and throughout the department of justice to bring islity and transparency deeply concerning. in the absence of federal leadership, a new e

communities decide, whether shuttering a police department or re-imagining a police department, it's going to be a process. >> jake ward, you've been studying this since ferguson. things like 8 can't wait, the 8 points that can change policing. some you can do within a few weeks. there are a few that include retraining, include options in terms of the use of force, include using shooting as a last resort that are more than instructions and t directive an policy. they actually require some in-depth training. that's absolutely right, ali. what we are all learning is there's this deep fundamental change that has taken place. ever since ferguson, it's been interesting to see how fragmented the police departments across the country they are, how separate they are fromte one another. you can see whether it's food safety -- i was looking this week at the design of play grounds and the national guidelines we have for safe play grounds in this country. there's nothing at a federal level for safety when it comes to w police and the procedures that should be recommended to all police departments. as you say you can make some quick c changes. we saw san francisco make som

louis police department talked about the ferguson effect after the uprising that occurred there and what we saw, police officers got the impression nationwide citizens and governments alike did not want them to act proactively to patrol neighborhoods, they responded to 9 one one calls but that was all they did and when you see that situation you will see crime numbers spike because police officers are not doing the job of interdicting the crime. my concerns i was going on right now makes what happened in 2015 look like child's play. rather than seeing police officers be more apprehensive about doing police work, you will see people do a study of our own members and we found over 70% were considering leaving the police department and the fast majority were considering leaving law enforcement altogether and when you take away people's working conditions, we saw a number of them, when people realize they put their lives and freedom, and families in jeopardy they will look at other careers. what we saw in 2015 were cops stopped doing that, things keep going the way they are going, a lot of p

police. and as i said, that's where ferguson was and the st. louis county police department was the major police department involved in that incident after the michael brown shooting. so there's history there that is unique and different, in many ways, from history in other communities. four st. louis officers have been shot during this period. so that's probably what the sergeant was referring to, in some regard. i don't know that we know exactly why there's violence in one place, and there isn't violence in another. some of it has to do with the way the police are handling things but it also has to do with some of the local community and some of the players there. >> the owner of the store where the employee actually made that initial call to police because george floyd had allegedly passed a counterfeit bill. they've sort of been like shaken by how all of this played out. they're vowing, in the future, they do things differently. i'd like you to listen to this. >> on behalf of -- of cut food staff, we're not going to call the police unless it's a violent -- an act of viol

not just police shootings, it's about you know, what happens on the ground and the police department so with the fergusonsaw that it was big government and there and they literally policing for profit, when you look at minneapolis, you see in the police department, the use of force that when it comes to black americans it's a big problem there so instead of people on the right saying, you know what, this is our plan. to get rid of the unions and put our policies in there. when people say systematic racism, instead of being on the ground and saying you know what, people should not have to go to the school just because they live in the zip code. when people say they are not safe in the community, instead of going into the community, you know it, this is how you defend yourself, these are your rights, there is an answer for every single thing that because conservatives on a local level, not talking about the president's national policy, local level, how you get things done, we never have a response so we go back and forth on who's the bigger racist and who's not. >> katie: yeah. greg, your thoughts on the d

police departments. but that program came under fire during the unrest in ferguson, missouri six years ago. esident obama limited the transfers in 2015, but president trump reinstated the program two years later. nationwide, 8,000 police departments have received military hardware since 1997 >> reporter: the threat of terrorism after 9/11 convinced many departments to stock up now those departments are facing off against their own citizens. >> we're out here peacefully protesting but they're armed like they're going to war. >> reporter: for the most part police in tucson remain in their regular beat uniforms and work to de-escalate tensions, but when officers faced bricks, bottles and gunfire, the chief says departments must switch to tactical gear. >> there is a time and a place for gear that can protect officers and can allow them to protect the community. i don't think certainly it's in every situation. i don't think it's necessary with peaceful protesters >> reporter: in america's cities tonight -- >> like an army ready to attack. >> reporter: -- a fine line between protection and provoc

ferguson. so, unless and until, police departments start holding police officers accountable, we're going to continue to see, i'm afraid, these kinds of outbursts. >> you mentioned the other three arresting officers have not been arrested at this point. i want you to listen to minnesota's attorney general, who is now overseeing their case. he spoke to cnn a few hours ago. >> i want to assure everybody that we are looking, very carefully, at holding everybody accountable who failed to do their duty below -- and fell below the legal requirements of their position. or did something affirmatively that would be in violation of the law. >> okay. so action seems pending. he won't say exactly what. but if the roles were reversed here, a black man had his knee on the neck of a white police officer, who was killed, while three of the black man's colleagues did nothing to stop it, would they be in jail by now? >> you already know, absolutely. and listen. i understand this is precarious. and they're only going to get one bite at the apple in terms of prosecution, so they want to have their ducks in a row. i get

police. and as i said, that's where ferguson was. and the st. louis county police department was the major police department involved in that incident after the michael brown shooting. so, there's a history there that is unique and different in many ways from history in other communities. four st. louis officers have been shot during this period, so that's probably what the sergeant was referring to in some regard. i don't know that we know exactly why there's violence in one place and there isn't violence in another. some of it has to do with the way police are handling things, but it also has to do with the local community dynamics and some of the players there. >> the owner of the store where the employee actually made that initial call to police because george floyd had allegedly passed a counterfeit bill, they've been left shaken by how all this played out. they're vowing in the future they do things differently. listen to this. >> on behalf of cup foods staff, we're not going to call the police unless it's an act of violence going on. we feel like we can police our own

police department. >> harris: how is ferguson, missouri doing?licans have been closing schools all the time and many people asked where will my kids be educated. the point is if you can't produce results, you lose your funding. that's what people are saying want we want to bolster police accountability and make strong police departments and a lot of people in law enforcement back that. it makes their credibility in the community stronger. if you have a strong police department doing the right thing for their citizens, they should fund it even better. they should be funded more. >> harris: well, that's interesting. you want money taken away and you think government will money back like a merit bonus? take it away, matt. >> if schools are failing you give them more money and not less. i don't understand how you compare it to school and give the different type of argument. defund the police. if you don't have any money, you have to disband. it's pretty simple. >> harris: gentlemen, we will see you in a bit. the opinion editor of the "new york times"

my tenure as head of the justice department civil rights division began two months after 18-year-old michael brown was killed by a police officer in ferguson. the justice department was hardly perfect, but we understood our mandate to promote accountability and constitutional policing in order to build community trust. during the obama administration, we opened 25 pattern or practice investigations to help realize greater structural and community-centered change, often at the request of police chiefs and mayors who needed federal leadership. after making findings, we negotiated consent decrees with extensive engagement and input from community advocates who not only identified unjust and unlawful policing practices, but also helped develop sustainable mechanisms for accountability and systemic change. that is not the justice department that we have today. under both attorney general jeff sessions and bill barr, the department has abdocated its responsibility and abandoned the use of tools like pattern practice investagations and consent decrees. instead it has focused on dismantling police accountability and halting any new investigations

police departments and issuing public reports about their findings. and in november of 2018, after speaking out against consent decrees between the obama justice department and troubled police departments in baltimore and in fergusonthen attorney general jeff sessions issued a memo limiting legal agreements that mandate reform. in november 2017, "the new york times" article entitled "how trump's hands of off approach to policing is frustrating some chiefs." we learned how the trump administration was scaling back programs that involved the justice department working with local police departments for reform. quote, the changes designed to ease pressure on law enforcement have actually encountered some resistance from police chiefs in cities that participated in the programs. and those chiefs work not only in big city democratic strongholds but also in places like spokane which has a republican mayor and is the largest city in a county that voted overwhelmingly for mr. trump. joining me now political reporter for "the washington post" eugene scott. eugene, good morning, thanks for getting up so early. appreciate it. let's start with the president's executive order on police reform. coming after he faced tremendous p