i wanted to say you would think of beer as being the overall arcing term for that fermented beverage, and then under very close to it, though, is ale because for the longest time beer that was consumed was the top fermenting ale. and so beer and ale were sort of synonymous. as other forms of fermentation through cultured yeast became part of the practice in brewing, and brewing became more commercialized and offered more beer styles, now you see beers that are wild fermented with variations that include -- >> free range. >> exactly. and those are the -- some of the belgian styles. and wild yeast beers, sour ales that are now being brewed and barrel aged a lot in the united states. then you also have you know, the various substyles that then become attempts to brand ap beer and attempts bay commercial brewer to make their style uniquely theirs. there has been some effort at that too. >> i was going to say but i'm glad that lucy, especially the latin names for the yeast. >> what do you think, the cubs question? >> well, i mean, suggests it comes from a period when they had cups. >> we h