or a fernando vila cruz is founder of cafe for chains change a social business focusing on the coffee tea and cocoa industries and he joins me now from munich fernando it's good to have you with us the u.s. is reportedly considering an import ban on cocoa from the ivory coast would that help the situation of families like these or could it make it worse. it would help it the biggest problem stephen and i have to thank you for having me on your show is that there is no rule of law in europe or the united states or canada when it comes to the very powerful and very rich multinationals that control italy district because we are talking about very poor and francis children on one side and on the other words are you know what multi-billionaires some of the richest families of europe and the richest families of the united states actually control the costs of all industries so if there were a rule of law all of these would change it's not about chasing their mothers and little children working. it's about understanding that really in germany we are both in germany and there is one family tha