well, listen to what happens between fiona hill and lee here. 've been the national -- i've been the national intelligence officer for russia before this for 3 1/2 years. so a lot of the information i have is classified and i know from my previous position about how many people were trying to gain influence into our politics and it's very much the russians who want to show that, in fact, it wasn't them who were involved in 2016. lee, so that i don't misunderstand your answer, based on your personal knowledge, you're not aware of redacted being connected to any ukrainians attempting to interfere with the u.s. election? fiona hill, correct. and i also just want to point out here our intelligence agencies were pretty thorough about the investigations and things here. look, and i'm sorry to get testy about this back and forth because i'm really worrie worrit these conspiracy theories. you just have the senate report informing us all yet again bipartisan, non-partisan senate report about the risk there is to our elections. if we have people running ar

fiona hill, it's the thrust of the question you're asking here. everything that happened in 2016 was a result of ukraine in some fashion? lawyer, yeah, i'm not saying that. i'm not. hill, well that's certainly what it sounds like to me. the lawyer, i'm not going down that path. fiona hill, the russians are the government that sbrn proven from the very top to be targeting our government systems. and i'm sorry to be very passionate. but this is precisely. the lawyer, i didn't say you did, i'm just trying to get your reaction to -- fiona hill, well, my reaction is pretty strong because again -- the lawyer, i know -- again i'm extremely concerned that this is a rabbit hole that we're going to down in between now and the 2020 elections and it will be to all of our detriment. i am just trying to say here that i have strong feelings. if i have done anything i want to leave a message to you that we should all be greatly concerned about what the russians intend to do in 2020 and any information that they can provide, you know, that basically deflects our at

fiona hill. she plans to push back on the narrative that ukraine tried to influence the 2016 election. you know, that's a big underpinning of the supposed legitimacy of the president's intentions. instead, hill plans to hone in on what everybody should see as the truth. russia was the sole person to focus on and that they still pose a very real threat to the 2020 race. hill's going to be joined this morning of course by david holmes. he is the ukraine embassy official who says he overheard president trump call gordon sondland in ukraine to check in on the investigations. wolf? >> you know, it's amazing that sondland himself blew up the inquiry wide open with his testimony yesterday confirming there was, in fact, a quid pro quo and that it came directly from the president of the united states. the eu ambassador said everyone knew exactly what was going on. holding up military aid in exchange for announcing political investigations from the vice president mike pence to the secretary of state mike po

and then you see the subhead there below the fiona hill photo. ex-white house aide says moskow was behind the claim. multiple stories on the impeachment inquiry overall and again another big main photo taking up most of the front page. four columns wide in "the post" fiona hill arriving for her testimony under the big headline, whirling week of testimony wraps up, a warning that conspiracy theories advance russia and divides americans. and the st. louis post dispatch from missouri. all caps bold headline. it says fictional narrative, hill says she predicted ukraine efforts would blow up. and then you've got the other bold headline there from fiona hill over the picture of her while she's testifying, quote, in the course of this investigation i would ask that you please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance russian interests. you see the headline below that for the self-supporting story with a warning about russia, blitz of testimony in-house wraps a. it's one thing to watch these hearings live as we've been doing for t

fiona hill, and i imagine mr.holmes, have seen exactly what has happened over the last several days. so have their attorneys. even if they didn't watch it themselves, people who are taking care of them and helping them prepare watched it. i imagine you're going to see fiona hill and david holmes stand up not just for their departments, not just for their profession, not just for their own personal dignity but for the facts. i don't imagine they're going to be pushed around very easily today. >> and we know that is donald trump's least -- that is the enemy against which donald trump does the worst. i mean, he can take on institutions because his base, to jon meacham's point, has a lot of skepticism about institutions. he can take on the media because his base has a lot of skepticism that right wing media has seeded. but facts are stubborn things. >> i wanted to follow one thing ari said, i completely agree we shouldn't try and predict what the senate might do, because we've had almost everything else turn on us, at

but it wasn't just fiona hill's testimony.e heard essentially the same warning from ambassador marie yovanovitch as well. >> how would this theory of ukraine interference in the 2016 election be in vladimir putin's interest? >> well, i mean, president putin must have been aware that there were concerns in the u.s. about russian meddling in the 2016 elections and what the potential was for russian meddling in the future. so, you know, classic for an intelligence officer to try to throw off the scent and, you know, create an alternative narrative that maybe might get picked up and get some credence. >> an alternative narrative that would absolve his own wrongdoing? >> yeah. >> yeah. intelligence committee counsel dan goldman, who you saw questioning marie yovanovitch there, he repeatedly over the course of the impeachment hearings raised this issue that the ukraine did it lie is something that vladimir putin himself has publicly promoted. >> colonel vindman, were you aware of a theory that ukraine had intervened or interfered in

details from the impeachment transcripts of two witnesses, lieutenant colonel alex vindman and fiona hillat are the highlights so far? >> reporter: yeah, significant development here that vindman, who staerves in the national security council, said mick mulvaney, acting chief of staff, was trying for this effort to push for the investigation into the bidens at the same time the ukraines were seeking a meeting in washington between the new incoming administration and president trump, saying that mick mulvaney was involved in this effort, which some people would call a quid pro quo. now, this is what he says of colonel vindman. he says, i heard him say this has been coordinated with white house chief of staff mick mulvaney. that's according to gordon sondland, the ambassador to the european union, who said at this meeting that there needs to be an investigation into biden and into the 2016 elections, things that could help the president with that meeting in ukraine taking place. he said mick mulvaney had coordinated that ask. later on he also said he heard gordon sondland tell ukrain direct

fiona hill is a career government official. heart recipient and military officer. to hear something like that for you, how does that make you feel? >> it's disappointing. like you mentioned, dr. hill and lieutenant conditional vindman and many others that testified, you're seeing a campaign to step away from the facts and the truth and focus more on the politics and focus on inciting individuals' passions on the left or the right side of the aisle. i think that we'll be well-served by focusing on the facts, by seeing where they lead us and following that to its conclusion. >> about ten seconds left. what do you think the effect will be on the other thousands of military and government officials working around the world this morning? >> i think it's a continuation of what we've seen over the last few years, where in this kind of administrative and political uncertainty, it's'sier to hunker down and hope it all blows over. >> guy snodgrass, commander, thank you for being with us. appreciate your time. >>> benjamin netanyahu reject

it was really heartening for me to hear fiona, dr. feouna hill, i'm sorry, i shouldn't call her fiona. i knew her before she was a doctor, by the way, i think. to try to dispel it. and by the way, chuck, i just published a piece in "the washington post" this week warning americans about how we cannot become complicit in running putin propaganda into our debates about politics. that's exactly what you just played there. it really scares me for 2020, too, by the way. she did something very clever, though, i thought. she said look, i think there were some certain things that was bad judgment, that the ukrainian ambassador published that op-ed piece, for instance. but then she said, i want to remind you, dozens of countries did the same thing. and we didn't withdraw military assistance or pull out of nato because the united kingdom did that, because the bbc was running similar things. i thought that was a very effective argument by fiona. and the second thing i want to underscore, remember, the president of the united states is also doing this. when

you are watching msnbc, we'll continue on vindman and fiona hill. a hill tom steyer: wall street banks took advantage of millions of americans during the recession. so, my wife kat and i took action. we started a non-profit community bank with a simple theory - give people a fair deal and real economic power. invest in the community, in businesses owned by women and people of color, in affordable housing. the difference between words and actions matters. that's a lesson politicians in washington could use right now. i'm tom steyer, and i approve this message. high protein. low sugar. tastes great! high protein. low sugar. so good! high protein. low sugar. mmmm, birthday cake! pure protein. the best combination for every fitness routine. . >>> we are following breaking news, back with me leig leigh ann caldwell. let's talk about what this impeachment inquiry is looking like for you. everyday we are getting more information that feels very similar to information that we heard before with the exception of gordon sondland who was the trump's appointee an

fiona hill was one of those people. and now those people are witnesses in the impeachment inquiry. >> max, precisely the kind of narrative she talked about has been the through line for not just devin nunes and other people on the committee but obviously rudy giuliani who's tweeting right now about how the u.s. embassy won't grant visas to some former prosecutors who want to come and tell us how corrupt i guess the bidens are. it does seem this sort of counter narrative that has been constructed has essentially colonized the minds of one of the two major parties. >> yeah, look, chris, i think we have to put this in some context. i mean, part of what rudy was doing as trump's personal lawyer who was hired as part of the russia investigation was to try to develop a counter narrative, a response trump could use to defend himself from allegations he colluded with russia that they thought were coming because of the mueller investigation. and then they saw this opportunity to connect it to biden in the 2020 election. and this

fiona hill.hat was the power of hery, testimohn, when you look at it especially as democrats try to use her as a way to counter what republicans are saying? john: well, shefr cted sondland directly inside the white house. and she has this argument with is wrong and tells him that to his face. that was stunning. think about it, they're having -- it's like acene outfter movie. they're having ant, argum you're breaking the law. she goes and relate this is to then national security director john bolton. and he goes tell the lawyers. he sends her because he knows it's troubling. it's a hugely dra make it mome. it was like in a movie. robert: it was a culture that was revealed inside the trump administration. was it about predent trump himself did sondland and others really reveal the president in his own involvement? >> in many wayse h did. fiona didn't necessarily apologiz toondland. but she did say after hearing his testimony, it was even more clear to her that he wasn't -- he thought he was doing h

because i would trade 500 donald trumps for one fiona hill in government service. and same for vindman and the rest of the memch and i think that message really came through. >> two of our friends, thank you gentlemen for hanging out with us and talking about all the issues of the day. >>> coming up for us, this may test the theory that donald trump, he's dedicated to rooting out corruption wherever it occurs. that's because a big friend of his is in trouble overseas. 448,134 to be exact. they answered 410 questions in 8 categories about vehicle quality. and when they were done, chevy earned more j.d. power quality awards across cars, trucks and suvs than any other brand over the last four years. so on behalf of chevrolet, i want to say "thank you, real people." you're welcome. we're gonna need a bigger room. they have businesses to grow customers to care for lives to get home to they use stamps.com print discounted postage for any letter any package any time right from your computer all the amazing services of the post office only cheaper get our special tv offer

fiona hill.she was knowledgeable, she was prepared, she was disarming and fierce and stood her ground. you saw some of the republican members i think shy away from getting too tough with her because she knew her stuff. >> caitlin, at one point she described her anger toward the u.s. ambassador to the eu, ambassador gordon sondland, let me play this clip. >> i was actually to be honest angry with him. and, you know, i hate to say it, but often when women show anger, it is not fully appreciated, it is often, you know, pushed on to emotional issues, perhaps or deflected on to other people. and while i was angry about was he wasn't coordinating with us. actually realized having listened to his deposition that he was absolutely right. that he wasn't coordinating with us because we weren't doing the same thing that he was doing. so i was upset with him that he wasn't fully telling us about all of the meetings he was having and he said to me, but i'm briefing the president. i'm briefing chief of staff m

fiona hill. it closed out an intense week of public impeachment hearings. dr. russia expert who served under three president who right out the gate called out the president for pushing conspiracy theories and explaining the dual tracks of the policy coming out of the white house garnered the attention of the nation. the nation that dr. hill herself spoke highly of recognizing that it was america that provided her with opportunities she would not have had anywhere else. >> i grew up poor with a very distinctive working class accent. in england in the 1980s and 1990s this would have impeded my professional advancement. this background has never set me back in america. >> we are very lucky to be joined by her attorney. you were by her side, but you've known her for 30 years. >> we met at harvard in the early 1990s. she left england where she came from a working-class background. her father's family worked in the coal mines. her mother's family worked in the sewers of northern edge lanlan england. she probably correctly concluded that she needed to leave england and

proceedings wrapped up with fiona hill a top official on the national security official and david holmes. dr. hill is a british foreign american citizen and daughter of a coal minor. she also happens to be brilliant, formidable, patriotic, fierce and forth right. she is the author on the psyche of vladimir putin. a life-long russia expert and scholar. and true to form she quickly set a tone with a rebuke and warning. >> some of of you on this committee appear to believe that russia and its security services did not conduct a campaign against our country and that perhaps, for some reason ukraine did. this is a fictional narrative that has been propigated by the russian security services. they can deploy millions to wep withenize our own political narratives. right now russian security services and their proxies have geared up to interfere in the 2020 election. we're running out of of time to stop them. in the course of this investigation i could ask that you please not note political false hoods that so clearly advance russian points. >> david holmes explained how what was going on in the

fiona hill and alexander vindman, the top ukraine expert.dman was on that july 25th phone call and testified that it was clear that president trump was demanding that the president of ukraine investigate the bidens. question, was there any doubt in your mind as to what the president, our president was asking for as a deliverable? vindman, there was no doubt. he added, quote, the power disparity between the president of the united states and the president of ukraine is vast and you know in the president asking for something it was a demand for him to fulfill this particular prerequisite in order to get the meeting. -- vindman and hill testifying that sondland was talking about how he had an agreement with chief of staff mick mulvaney for a meeting with the ukrainians if they were going to go forward with investigations. investigations into the bidens among other matters. upon hearing about that from fiona hill, that a white house

fiona hill, her words, her warnings. frank, your words, your warnings will be on all of our minds as this goes forward. my thanks to all of you today for getting me through my last hour of coverage. this marathon week. thanks to frank, david, eugene, chuck, karine. ari melber and maya and claire and everyone who was with me all day and all week. that does it for this hour. "mtp daily with chuck todd" starts now. >> welcome to thursday. "meet the press" daily, and good evening, i'm chuck todd in washington where there's been another day in dramatic testimony in the house impeachment inquiry and it capped off a dizzying week of public hearings. the house intelligence committee chairman adam schiff closed today's hearings with what sounded like the democrats' closing argument. leaving a lot of us here in washington with the impression democrats are finished with this phase of the inquiry. here he is speaking in personal terms about why he's

>> city know fiona hill, i traveled on air force one with fiona hill. she wasn't partisan to me.hough she previously worked for the brookings institution. she was supposed to be a fact witness, but she wasn't a fact witness. she lectured the republicans and accusing republicans that they don't bleach russia meddled in the 2016 election. but there is something interesting she said on lethal aid to ukraine. she said the obama administration, the president for political reasons didn't provide the aid. so where is the whistleblower from the obama years complaining that president obama didn't listen to the bureaucracy. that's what's going on with president trump. lou: one thing adam schiff and his radical dimm friends ben't. the bureaucracy and the arrogance of them. and i'm not talking about the political appointees. we are talking about foreign service officers. who do they think they are? who the hell do they think the interagency is, and i mean, i think the american people right now -- they have been served notice, you have a government not in the control of the people you elect.

it's affirming that there are people like fiona hill. >> two things, first about fiona hill and a profilef her in the nor "new york times." it tells it of a story when she was 11 years old, fataking a te, someone behind her set one of her pig tails on fire, she calmly reached back, extinguished the fire with her hand and continued taking the test. >> incredible. >> that sums up -- on intent, as a prosecutor, chuck and andrew will back me up on this, you look for things that the accused does that reflect intent. i would make the argument that when he chose giuliani to be the quarterback of this enterprise, if this was legitimate foreign policy, why would he need somebody operating out there fast and loose coloring outside the lines? why would he need giuliani and his pals from florida that are connected to the oligarchs and russia? why wouldn't he just go through the state department and pompeo to say i want to go after corruption in the ukraine? instead this is giuliani that is quarterbacking this whole enterpri enterprise. if there's any -- >> can i follow up? why wouldn't anyone at the

fiona hill the center of trying to execute on u.s. policy there in ukraine. im, how do you react to what you hear? >> first on hill, anybody who covers russia, hill knows russia, two, is as tough as can be, and three, oftentimes when i or others press the administration being soft on russia, they would point to the direction of fiona hill as a sign of you have someone on the inside who is tough on russia. her whole role here, she has enormous credibility on this, and listen to what she said regarding that call. she said trump pushing zelensky for investigations regarding the bidens were, in her words, pretty blatant. put that next to what vindman said, there was no ambiguity about the connection being made there. so people who were firsthand witnesses to the call, they read that quid pro quo as pretty clearcut. that's certainly significant in this. >> remind us how hill, though, fits into trump's national security circle. was she considered an insider? >> she was. certainly based on her position. she's the lead russia policy official on the national security c

fiona hill. >> yeah.e whole thing, she was like, wait a minute, you did not know that burisma meant biden? come on. carl bernstein, you've lived through this before. i'm sure you could relate to that column that i showed -- >> i remember that column. >> you are that column. you are that column. chairman schiff made a comparison between president trump and nixon in his closing statement. watch this, and then we'll talk. >> what we've seen here is far more serious than a third-rate burglary of the democratic headquarters. what we're talking about here is the withholding of recognition in that white house meeting, the withholding of military aid to an ally at war. that is beyond anything nixon did. the difference between then and now is not the difference between nixon and trump. it's the difference between that congress and this one. >> is he right? is this beyond what nixon did? >> yes, because of the element nixon never conspired with a foreign power to undermine the american electoral system and violate

laura, in many ways fiona hill was an assassin. e kind of person that sneaks in stealthily in the night and then -- boom! it ends two weeks of public impeachment hearing and what do you think of iffiona hill and d holmes to end this? >> this is about the idea that this is all hearsay and no one's heard anything and no one's been actually hear from the pejorative horse's mouth essentially and here you have two people who addressed the issue and dr. fiona hill addressing explicitly, you talked about hearsay and i heard it with my own ears and i talked to the players involved and this is how it was surmised from actual observation and actual hearing and other use of my senses. you have mr. holmes talking about the idea of what he actually heard on the phone and what the idea of the president's true motivations were and they were able to undermine any notion that it is unknown to anyone what the president was thinking, and they also both addressed the point that that was very obviously a flaw in the prior testimony of ambassador sondlan

proceedings wrapped up this afternoon with fiona hill a former top official on the national security council and david holmes, a political counselor at the u.s. embassy in ukraine. dr. hill is the daughter of a coal miner and also happens to be brilliant, formidable, patriotic, fierce, and forthright. she is the author among other things of a book on the psyche of vladimir putin. a lifelong russia expert and scholar and true to form, she quickly set the tone with a rebuke and a warning to members of the house intelligence committee. >> some of you on this committee appear to believe that, and the security services did not conduct a campaign against our country. and that perhaps somehow for some reason, ukraine did. this is a fictional narrative that's been perp rated and propagated by the russian security services themselves. president putin and the russian security services operate like a super pac. they deploy millions of dollars to weapon news our own false narratives. right now russia security services have geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election. we are runnin

fiona hill and david holmes walking out of the capitol after the hearing. john king, what was the most important part of david holmes' testimony, do you think in. >> for the democrats, someone who heard the voice of the president of the united states saying is he going to do the investigations, where ambassador sondland apparently holding the phone out, holmes said he could hear the president of the united states asking is he going to do the investigations? there have been throughout the republican rebuttals of this or dismissals of it you can't tie it to the president. having a witness and experienced diplomat, i heard the president and in follow-up conversation, he said sondland told him president doesn't care about ukraine, he cares about the investigation of the bidens. that is the democrats billed their case is critical to get firsthand from the president that this was important to him. i think the bigger dynamic of the day and you can tell by chairman schiff's summary at the end, this is decision time for the democrats. there are no more public hearin

i think the top line and i think you probably agree is dr fiona hill basically with a warning to the committee about what russia's goals have been about how they are still being effective and what their goals are which is to deal idjit demise the u.s. presidency that's that's what she said and also testimony from from mr holmes about basically how the official policy of the u.s. towards ukraine had basically been hijacked for lack of a better word what else did you hear. that's right and hill dr hill really put this in the big picture context of all of this and warning as you said is a great description of how she phrase this she said specifically to the committee members she said russia is watching and the things being discussed in these hearings the ways the partisan ways that these questions are being phrase in particularly trying to highlight these conspiracy theories that ukraine somehow was involved in election meddling in 2016 she said that plays right into russia's hand and that what's happening now is as her worst fear that russia had so this just scored within the 2 politic

fiona hill and alexander vindman of what we learned. ng into the 2020 race. how it divides the democratic rival. jeff sessions is looking to return to capitol hill and take back his senate seat, how the president feels about that run. coming up. >>> we have just received the transcripts i got them here from two key witnesses. they are packed with insights. vindman and fiona hill. we'll dig

fiona hill and tim morrison worked for john bolton, they came forward. secretary of state pompeo and david holmes, he stepped forward today, they came forward and secretary of state pompeo, it's your turn and mick mulvaney, you know better. >> we will see if they accept that invitation. so far they have not. >>> just ahead defense of the president torn apart by one impeachment witness after another. --for massive capacity-- --and ultra-fast speeds. almost 2 gigs here in minneapolis. that's 25 times faster than today's network in new york city. so people from midtown manhattan-- --to downtown denver-- --can experience what our 5g can deliver. (woman) and if verizon 5g can deliver performance like this in these places... it's pretty crazy. ...just imagine what it can do for you. ♪ do your asthma symptoms ever hold you back? about 50% of people with severe asthma have too many cells called eosinophils in their lungs. eosinophils are a key cause of severe asthma. fasenra is designed to target and remove these cells. fasenra is an add-on injection for people

fiona hill's prepared testimony. she's going to be testifying the former top russia adviser to the president, on the national security council. this line also jumped out at me near the end of her opening statement. if the president or anyone else impedes or subverts the national security of the united states in order to further domestic political or personal interests, that is more than worthy of your attention, she tells these lawmakers. >> we always have to get back to what the core of this issue is. here's fiona hill. a respected russia expert. president trump's appointee to lead russia policy. and russia is america's -- one of america's top national security threats. she's articulating there and she's going to be uttering these words under oath, that the president subjugated u.s. national security interest for his own political interest. she's stating what the case is. and she was, by the way, involved in developing and carrying out the president's policy there. she goes on to call out members of the committee fo

fiona hill didn't get permission.don sondland didn't get permission, and all of these people knew any order from the white house not to testify was based on a bogus absolute immunity defense. and they came up and did their patriotic duty. so why is john bolton hiding behind fiona hill's skirts? well, part of it is money and he lives within this right wing echo sphere. these are his supporters and they donate to his super pac. he's trying to be very cute and stay in the public eye, but at the same time he's not doing his patriotic duty. he's not helping to get to the bottom of this. so in that case he's really enabling donald trump and indirectly vladimir putin. >> his lawyer seems to be helping him as well. john bolton's lawyer in on november 8th said bolton was personally involved in many of the events, meetings and conversations in which you've already received testimony -- i'm sorry, as well as many relevant meetings and conversations that have not yet been discussed in the testimonies thus far. so i sort of get th

fiona hill and colonel colonel vindman related this was coordinated by gordon sondland and a push for politically het mick mulvaney vated investigations from president trump. tonight testimony unveiled from two key witnesses point to white house chief of staff mick mulvaney as the one who coordinated the quid pro quo demand with ukraine. fiona hill, the white house former top russia adviser, telling lawmakers last month that eu ambassador gordon sondland made mulvaney's instructions clear when they met with ukrainian officials july 10th at the white house and hill testifying ambassador sondland in front of the ukrainians was talking about how he had an agreement with chief of staff mulvaney for a meeting with the ukrainians if they were going to go forward with investigations. the white house's top expert on ukraine alexander vindman echoed that and said they were the deliverable coordinated by mulvaney. sondland said he had a conversation with mr. mulvaney and this is what is what is required in order to get a meeting. vindman adding there was no ambiguity that a white house meeting

at or listening to fiona hill.alked right by me. only to say he is not fixated on this. ? and neither were you. >> i was listening to it. >> okay. >> i was listening to it avidly. michael, my question is we know the risks for democrats right now. everyone is saying the democrats -- the republican critics are saying you're rushing impeachment. you're going to do this without a single republican vote. i get that risk for democrats. what's the risk for republicans though now? in circling the wagons and sayisay ing despite all this evidence, we just don't see the point in going through with impeachment. what could be the lasting harm for them? >> the lasting harm for them would be if a case has been made. and frankly i think the dust needs to settle for a couple of days. i'm hesitant to weigh in immediately saying they're not going to be able to meet their burden and get enough republicans to support them. 20 senators in the united states senate. but the risk for republicans is that a compelling case has been offered,

fiona hill. takes a torpedo to conspiracy theories that the republicans have been pushing. that is next on "morning joe." we are back in two minutes. lorss and are gluten & dairy free. they're all clean. all the time. even if sometimes we're not. sundown vitamins. all clean. all the time. wwithout it, i cannot write myl tremors wouldname.xtreme. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. for sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. and we won't stop. join us in fighting for what's right. >>> this is a seminal moment in our investigation. the evidence you have brought forward is deeply significant and troubling. who had the decision to release the aid, it was one person, donald j. trump, president of the united states. now, my colleagues seem to think unless the president says the magic words that i hereby bribed the

. >> been vindman and fiona hill, listening to democratic operatives spin the information.t goes to show that the experts that the president is suppose to be relying on as given to him by the deep state people like hill and colonel vindman. they don't know what they shall talking about. either they are iser in rant or being men days in suggesting crane wasn't working with the obama-clinton gang to target trump. ukrainians were distrustful of trump. and pretending it didn't happen -- i don't understand it. it's either ignorant -- lou: or the other. i don't know there is a lot of question about which it is. fiona hill actually saying the republicans were not across knowledging russia was responsible for interfering with the u.s. presidential elections in 2016. that wasser in the issue,er in the case, and the republicans point out that she was absolutely dead wrong. and the extent to which she pursued that untruth was i thought astonishing. let's listen to fiona hill, the self-cast at least leading expert on ukraine. >> i have heard some of you on this committee appear to beli

fiona hill, david holmes on the hill. you kick off things here. what will you look for these two witnesses this morning? >> yesterday ambassador sondland shocked people with his opening statements, republicans especially of. everybody knew there was a quid pro quo. here are emails to show it. i believe he said foreign aid was tied to this the morning was bad for republicans. in the afternoon, republicans pressed him did you hear the aid was tied directly to the. he said no. it took shine off that he was trumpian john dean in the afternoon. he was damaging to republican arguments on a number of fronts. laura cooper, pentagon official, it opens the door possibility that ukrainians knew the aid was held as soon as july 25th, the day of the call. is it definite? no. she got a call from the ukrainians at the pentagon where is the aid as of july 25th. that is all circumstantial. chad mentioned after today house lawmakers take a break until december third. does this momentum continue? is there momentum on the democratic side? th

this was they fiona hill show. i think before it was over, republicans realized they shouldn't really try to mess around with this witness. at one point, steve castor -- i was not sure whether he was trying to say sondland is a kook or you are in a possible bureaucrat, but said you and sondland didn't get along, did you? as you pointed out, she said, no, that's true, we didn't get along. at one point, we fought a few times. she said i watch what he said yesterday and understood. i would now cut gordon sondland a break, because he was involved in a domestic political errand, which is an interesting choice of words. we were involved in national security policy. most tellingly, she said that it one point she's had to gordon sondland during one of their disagreements, i think, gordon, that this is all going to blow up. and she felt that this was not the result of that, that we had a policy toward ukraine that on one track was national security policy. what's best for ukraine, how do they stand up to russia. on the othe

fiona hill. [video clip] >> you also testified ambassador bolton had expressed some views to you about mr. giuliani's interests in ukraine. do you recall what he said to you? >> it was part of a conversation about the things mr. giuliani was saying frequently in public. we saw him often on television making these statements and i had brought to ambassador bolton's attention the attacks, the smear campaign against ambassador yovanovitch and expressed regrets about how this was unfolding and the shameful way in which ambassador yovanovitch was being smeared and attacked then i asked if there was anything we could do about it and ambassador bolton looked pained, indicated with body language there was nothing he could do about it and in the course of that discussion said rudy giuliani was a hand grenade that was going to blow everyone up. >> did you understand what he meant by that? >> i did. >> what did he mean? >> he meant what mr. giuliani was saying was explosive, he was on television making ince

and fiona hill.oth vindman and hill were first-hand witnesses to some of the key flash points at the heart of this scandal. vindman, who was on that july phone call between president trump and ukrainian president zelensky testifying that it was blatant and obvious that mr. trump was demanding investigations into his political rivals. those investigations are what vindman refers to as a deliverable in his testimony. in this first exchange, vindman is asked, quote, you were listening in realtime to this call along with president zelensky when president trump was speaking. vindman says correct. then he's asked and was there any doubt in your mind as to what the president, our president, was asking for as a deliverable? there is that reference to the investigations. vindman's answer, there was no doubt. vindman adds that the stature and the importance of the office of the presidency raised the stakes of the president's request such that ukraine was not left with much of any choice. the power disparity, v

listen, i think fiona hill, in some ways, was the most important witness. because she did something that tied it up in a way that no one else did, which is by saying, this wasn't a foreign policy process. this was a domestic political errand. and then she took it one step further and said, our foreign policy protects our national security. this effort led by the president and rudy giuliani undermined our national security, hurt our ally, ukraine, and helped -- wait for it, the russians. this is a consistent theme through the trump presidency and i think it makes it harder for republicans. i agree with david, though, they'll swallow and acquit him, but it makes it much harder for the republicans in the senate to acquit the president when it's about helping the russians. >> yeah. you know, i think this thing has always been headed to the same place, and john avlon just mentioned it, it's always been headed to the senate saying, yes, what he did was wrong, he shouldn't have done it, it was inappropriate, but we have an election in ten months and let the americ

there was a sense from republicans that yesterday was the closer, fiona hill and mr. holmes, that that was the end. as you heard garrett say, that is the expectation. but we do have bolton out there. he could be this wild card that democrats can pull out, again, as a closer in the coming weeks or so, depending on what happens. >> we heard from someone who worked for him, fiona hill. and you could argue that she's a surrogate for at least those interactions among gordon sondland and the rudy giuliani piece and what she saw from her perspective, not of course what might have happened between the president and john bolton which might be excluded by some limited executive privilege as well. >> exactly. one of the arguments the white house has said, at the core of republicans' arguments is this is secondhand knowledge, no one had direct conversations with the president about why the aid was on hold, what he wanted in exchange for these investigations. and that's because the people who would have those direct conversations with the president have not been testifying. mick m

fiona hill going on to make it clear, burisma was code for the bidens. another republican talking point demolished. >> i thought it was obvious to you that burisma meant bidens. >> yes, it was. >> and you actually treated that as a pretty easy thing to understand. in fact, mr. morrison figured it out with a single google search. but is it credible to you that mr. sondland was completely in the dark about this all summer? i mean, you had an argument about it. didn't you say -- >> he was oblivious -- >> i'm sorry, i couldn't hear your answer. >> it is not credible to me that he was oblivious. >> well, all of this tells you exactly what you need to know about the state of the republican party today. ignoring the evidence. ignoring the facts. in deep, deep denial. has the gop been completely transformed into the party of trump? probably yes. the answer to that is question. and do the facts even matter anymore? dr. hill had to fight her way through all the noise, all the political posturing, to talk about what really matters here, and that's the facts. >> cou

fiona hill and david holmes. dr. fiona hill is a former deputy assistant to the president and senior director for europe and russia on the national security council. before returning to government she was a senior fellow heershe directed the center on the united states and europe. she previously worked at the national security col, eurasia foundation and the john f. kennedy school of government. david holmes is the political counsellor at the u.s. embassy in kyiv where he serves as the adviser to ambassador taylor who testified earlier in these hearings. he is a career foreign service officer. he has previously served in moscow, new delhi, kabul and bogota. he has served on the national security council as special assistant to the united states secretary of state. two final points before our witnesses are sworn. first witness depositions as part of this inquiry were unclassified in nature and all open hearings will be held at the unclassified level. any information that may touch on classified information will be add

fiona hill, live yesterday. here is part of what she said. >> as republicans and democrats have agreed for decades, you are a valued partner of the united states and play an important role on our social -- social security. legitimizeeffort to a narrative that the ukrainian government attacked us in 2016 and not russia. these fictions are harmful, even if they are purely mystic for political purposes. president putin and the russian security offices operate like a super park, the blowing millions of dollars to weaponize our political opposition resource and full narratives. bipartisan concerned they partisan talk, degrade our institution and our democracy. i respect the work this congress does in carrying out their constitutional responsibilities, and i'm here to help you to the best of my ability. elsee president or anyone impedes or subverts the national security of the u.s., in order it for domestic, political, or personal resources, that is worth attention. preventnot let politics us from defending ourselves