will go on earlier i spoke to kevin journalists at firedoglake and i first asked him to break down some content i was indiscriminately swept up and archived by the agency. what really sticks out is that you have the washington post mentioning that there are medical records academic transcripts you've got people who are doing a job hunting z. of resumes that work swept up and then you have photos you have photos of like they mention a girl standing outside of a mosque in a dress or you have more risque photos which seem to tap into maybe the voyeurism of the n.s.a. analysts where you've got people who are posing in a bikini tops for photos and none of that information seems to have any relation to anything that i can think the n.s.a. would need to have to do anything really kevin the general counsel for the office of the director of national intelligence flippantly dismiss the report claiming that all it means that each valid foreign intelligence targets talk to an average of nine people what's your response. but i think that that's quite a deflection i mean first off what they're saying

journalist at firedoglake thank you so much both of you for coming on susan i want to start with youbased on this government guidebook what is the criteria that an individual has to meet to be nominated to the terror watch list. great well you know this guidance had a few surprises but i think it confirms all of our worst fears about the no fly list the criteria is incredibly broad to be placed on a government watch list basically all you have to do is to be suspected of being a terrorist or a suspected terrorist so there needs to be some sort of reasonable suspicion but the problem is that the reasonable suspicion standard is incredibly low it's really nothing you know something a little bit more than a hunch that someone is a suspected terrorist or is a known terrorist so you know there are a few examples from the guidelines that actually illustrate just how problematic this is if for example traveling to an area with terrorist activity could be considered reasonable suspicion to put you on a terrorist watch list going to a school that teaches this. ideology can also be considered

list that's just been expanding expanding over the years kevin in a recent article you wrote on firedoglakein response to the document you out of that entire categories of people can be put on the watch list how can an entire demographic of people be targeted as a threat. potentially let's say one of the examples i suppose is the christmas day bomber that happened in december two thousand and nine so wherever you know you are for a group. came from the originated country i think everyone was concerned about yemen in that case so the whole category of benny's could be screened and be subject to more scrutiny and you saw afterwards that actually president barack obama will name that list of countries where those populations were going to be subject to additional screening and so i presume that based on what i was reading in the watch listing guidance that perhaps those countries also had more people placed on the watch list in that period would you say that specifically an anti muslim center men goes in to influence in the guidelines given absolutely and i mean we've seen in a previous story