fischbach? mr. jordan -- rep. jordan: go to ms. fischbach. rep. fischbach: i appreciate that. i have a question for mr. popper. justice alito identified a nonexhaustive list of circumstances for courts to consider. you touched on it a little bit in your testimony. one of those circumstances is the start of the burden that the size of the burden imposed by the voting rule. justice alito noted that mere inconvenience is insufficient. can you expand a little bit on what that means? mr. proper: -- mr. popper:. yes. in many ways, thank you for your question, i am sorry i was organizing something else. in many ways, it is an application of what we call the anderson burden test where you have an administrative burden to a civil right, you assess the importance of the state interest and how much of an inconvenience it is. if it is a severe inconvenience, that is one thing. if it is not, at another point the court mentions, if there are other ways to get done what you need to get done as a voter, you have to take that into account. you have to be practical about this. i think that in a

fischbach. mrs. fischbach, your time. senator fischer: thank you very much. -- mrs. fischbach: thank you very much. the hearing has been very informative. i have read in some of the written testimony about the application process for the usda being rather burdensome and very heavy on paperwork, things like that. i wonder if maybe each of the producers could talk a little bit about each of the -- each of the witnesses could talk a little bit about how we could improve that process for them and do a more outreach. i believe the shannons talked about the outreach. if it's something we can do to improve that process. so i don't know who you want to start with, if maybe the shannons would like to start. mr. shannon: sure. thank you for that question. again, our relationship only started last year with our local usda office. that process was easy. but in the past week or two, looking through some of the grants and programs, it comes down to a time issue. that's been mentioned before. simplicity of forms, simplicity of getting paperwork back and forth electronically this da