forkner, shocker alert mcas is down to m 2. it is running rampant in the sim on me. at least that's what vince thinks is happening. gustafson's response oh great, that means we have to update the speed triple description in volume two. mr. forkner, so basically i lied to the regulators unknowingly. >> gustafson, it wasn't a lie. no one told us that was the case i'm leveling off at 4,000 feet, 230 knots, the plane is trimming itself like crazy. i'm like what? gustafson. that's what i saw on sim one but on approach. i think that's wrong >> forkner, granted, i suck as flying, but even this was egregious. that exchange described what happened in lion air and ethiopian air. the men and women gathered here with photos of your loved ones, 346 people are dead because what these chief pilots described as egregious and crazy, that's their language, that's boeing's internal language in this exchange now, what i find truly stunning, boeing handed this exchange over to department of justice in february in march i chaired a hearing of the aviation subcommittee on the two crashes.

it's running rampant in the sim on me, writes the former chief test pilot mark forkner. the other pilot responds, oh, great, that means we have to update the trim description. he writes, so i basically lied to the regulators unknowingly. at one point he calls what happened in the simulator egregious. in statement to the "wall street journal," forkner's attorney writes, "if you read the whol chat, it's obvious there is no lie and the simulator program was not operating properly." based on what he was told, mark thought the plane was safe and the simulator would be fixed. tonight, the faa says it found the messages concerning, adding it's also disappointed that boeing did not bring this document to its attention immediately upon its discovery boeing tells nbc news, "we will continue to follow the direction of the faa and other global regulators as we work to safely return the 737 max to service. last month, the new faa chief exclusively spoke with nbc's tom costello. >> i'm not going to sign off on the aircraft until i would fly it myself or put my own family on it. >> rep

we reached out to mark forkner's attorney, davidg gerger.es and the portrayal that perhaps they were misleading the faa or his client was. he says, if you read the whole chat, it was obvious that there was no lie the simulator was not reading right. he would never put anyone in an unsafe plane as you take a look at shares of boeing, i should point out that the company issued a statement today saying it's cooperating with all of the probes, including not only doj, but the d.o.t. and congressional ones. and guys, the reason i say we may have more developments, the faa said today they're sending more of these instant messages or these conversations to congressional committees that are investigating this we have not seen them yet, but we're looking. and we're expecting those sometimes this afternoon >> phil, we know you'll bring us the latest as you get them phil lebeau, thank you for more, let's bring in gordon bethune, former pilot, former continental airlines ceo, and important to this conversation, former vp and general manager of 737 and 75

forkner saying quote i basically lied to regulators in parentheses, he adds unknowingly. session lows now down about 4 1/2% and that's why you see the dow down more than -- just under, i should say, 200 points this hour. let's catch you up on a few other stories that should be on your radar it is time for rapid fire and here with their takes are contessa brewer, bill griffeth, and courtney reagan. so much to discuss today how about apple ceo tim cook in china? the agency says they talked about apple protecting consumer rights, expanding investment in china, fulfilling social responsibility but this comes a week after apple chose to remove a crowd source map service that allowed hong kong protestors to track police activity. cook defended that decision saying it protected apple users. is he not the greatest diplomat this country has practically at this point here's somebody who can get along with trump and have the president singing his praises. get along with the chinese and have them singing his praises. it's amazing. >> he needs to give adam silver a lesson. >> well, ad

forkner meant by that exchange. his lawyer has suggested he was talking about a simulator that was in development in that time period. that's where he was working. that could be the case. we don't know. i fully support diving deep into this and understanding what he said and what he meant, but i could also tell you that in that same time frame where his original message was made -- >> mr. gustafson still works at boeing. >> correct. >> yes, he does. >> have you had that conversation with him? >> senator, my team has talked with patrick as well. >> have you had that conversation? >> senator, i have not. >> thank you, senator cruz. senator tester. senator cruz, if you could have that reduced in size and we will en enter it into the record without objection at this point. so ordered. senator tester. >> thank you, mr. chairman. i want to thank you and ranking member for having this hearing and i know for the two folks on the panel this morning, it is probably a painful morning for you. but the fact is the infinitely mor

forkner. i'm lefing off at like 4,000 feet. 230 knots and the plane is tr trimming itself like crazy. i'm like what? gustafson, that's what i saw on sim one, but on approach, i think that's wrong. forkner. granted, i suck at flying. but even this was aagreenlgous. that exchange describes what happened in lion and ethiopian air. the men and women who are gathered here with the fphotos f your loved ones, 346 people are dead. because what these chief pilots described as e gree jous and crazy, that's their language. boeing's internal language in this exchange. now what i find truly stun inin boeing handed this exchange over to the department of justice in february. in march, i chaired a committee on these two crashes. boeing did not see fit to give this committee this exchange. nor did they give it to the faa or the department of transportation. but what i find most stunning is your testimony here today that you said you first learned of this exchange a couple of weeks ago. these are senior leader

forkner, the test pilot you reference in your report there, he no longer ishboeing. when he made reference to the fact that he unknowingly lied to regulators, he asked them apparently, according to the "new york times," eight months before these messages took place to remove reference to the mcas system, that questionable system, to remove that from the pilot's manual. so he obviously felt bad about that. he has consequently since or subsequently since said that he's invoking his fifth amendment right against self-incrimination as part of the doj investigation. so not good. you showed dennis muilenburg there just a short moment ago. he will be on capitol hill to answer some of this on october 29th. they've got earnings next wednesday, the 23rd. so they will have that as well to deal with. you talk about the stock. you mentioned it at the outset. itot as high as $439.96n february 28th. you see where it is right now. it's beginning to fall as we speak. lastly, i want to leave you this. boeing now has just -- boeing based here in chicago, has just now issued a statement

forkner writes, so i basically lied to the regulators unknowingly.t he calls what happened in the flight simulator egregious. in a statement to the "wall street journal" forkner's attorney writes, if you read the whole chat it is obvious there was no lie, and the simulator program was not operating properly. based on what he was told, mark thought the plane was safe and the simulator would be fixed. the faa says it found the messages concerning, adding, it's also disappointed boeing did not bring this document to its attention immediately upon its discovery. boeing tells nbc news, we will continue to follow the direction of the faa and other global regulators as we work to safely return the 737 max to service. last month, the new faa chief exclusively spoke with nbc's tom costello. >> i'm not going to sign off on the aircraft until i would fly it myself or put my own family on it. >> reporter: no u.s. airline will fly the max until january at the earliest. stephanie gosk, nbc news, new york. >> thanks to stephanie there. >>> learning new details on t

forkner meant by the email i ca

in one text, mark forkner, the chief technical pilot, tells another about its behavior in the simulator texting quote it's running rampant in the sim on me so i basically lied to regulator understand knowingly. the plane is turning itself like crazy, i'm like what? this information not shared with the faa at the time. that was in 2016, two years later flight 610 crashed in indonesia. five months after that ethiopian airlines flight 302 went down, 346 people were killed in all. the mca was blamed for making it impossible for pilots to stabilize the plane and nose dive. at the time, boeing said it did not believe that it was the cause or unsafe. boeing handed over the text messages to the department of transportation just this week. the backlash was immediate. the faa administrator writing in a letter to the company's ceo i understand that boeing discovered the document in its files months ago. i expect your explanation immediately regarding the content of this document and boeing's delay in disclosing the document to its safety regulator. the chair of the house committee on transportatio

forkner sent these messages expressing safety concerns, he asked the f.a.a.remove mention of the mcas automated flight control featuring from the 737 max pilot flight manual and training course. it's a change the f.a.a. approved in 2017. notably indonesia's national transportation safety committee report on the lion air crash confirms the pilot's lack of knowledge of mcas was one of the key reasons for the plane crash. how frequently are new automated systems left out of the manual and training that ou give to pilots? >> senator, first of all, one of the things we've learned from both accidents is that we need to provide additional information on mcas to pilots, just to give you context, as we develop our training manuals, our idea is to provide training on pilots so they can respond to the effects of failures as opposed to trying to diagnose failures. that's a very important distinction, so more information in the training manuals is not necessarily safer. but as we understand from both accidents, we need to provide more information on mcas to enhance safety

there was a story that forkner had jedi mind tricked into accepting minimal training on the max. you're seeing a daily drumbeat of negative news headlines for the company, again, as itseo is facing congressional hearings in the coming weeks and seeing this pressure mount. the meeting should last until the afternoon. we'll see what happens it's going to be very difficult to maintain the steady hand they have >> the time with regard to boeing's criminal probe that led to the disclosure of this inrmation to the regulator and now to congress. why weren't these internal messages made public or at least to their regulator sooner? does this order of events make sense to you or raise any concern about boeing sitting on these messages >> boeing has said that it is complying with the criminal information and did not provide to the regulator because of the criminal investigation but lawmakers have not been satisfied with that response, and they were livid on friday when this news came out. and the regulator itself, steven dixon, you saw him sending a message to muilenburg expressing his dis

boeing had insisted it was unaware of the role in the tragedies, but in 2016 mark forkner, the chiefoeing during tests for certification by the federal aviation administration, texted with another pilot that he noticed a problem. the m-cast was, quote, running rampant in the similar, meaning simulator, also saying, quote: so i basically lied to the regulators unknowingly. also texting: granted, i suck at flying, but even this was egregious. remember, this was two years before the first fatal crash. in a letter to the ceo of boeing, the faa administrator called this latest revelation concerning writing, quote: i understand that boeing discovered the documents in its files months ago. i expect your extra nation immediately -- explanation immediately regarding the content of this document and boeing's delay in disclosing to the safety regulator. congressman peter defazio said in a statement: this is no isolated incident and underscores why it is so important that members of congress have a chance to question boeing in public. this is not about one employee, this is about a failure of a