francis fukuyama, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much., you have said that russia is heading for outright defeat in ukraine. why do you think russia is going to lose? well, i don't know that it's going to lose. i'm pretty sure that it's not going to win. putin had hoped for a 48—hour rush to kyiv. he would overthrow the democratically elected zelensky regime, put in a puppet. that's not going to happen. and i think at this point, three weeks into the war, even if he manages to take kyiv, which i don't think he will, he can't subdue a nation of more than a0 million people with the forces that he has. he's mobilised the entire ukrainian nation against him. and i think that in that respect, he's really lost because his expectation was ukraine would collapse, they'd be happy to be liberated and join russia. it's simply not going to happen. ok, but we have seen a change in the firepower being used, and he has immense amounts of quantities of weaponry. surely, russia could dominate militarily? well, it gets into a kind of technical discussion,

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this idea of a friend from francis fukuyama that the, the history is over, there's nothing more left to do throughout the course, each of unity that we've just heard that. i mean, he also said, we stand with you. what do you think the ukrainians in the audience listening to this speech are going to make out of that? i mean, the u. s. and joe biden went through a long list of things that the u. s. and the european union have done to support ukraine militarily. ship in a terms of humanitarian aid, in terms of financial relief, economic, a sort of aspects. but if we've been hearing for weeks now, zalinski and many of his officials talking about how is just not enough. they want so much more direct a intervention both militarily and in terms of, of aid of all kinds. i think soleski even use the word disappointed at one at one point, thankful for what has been done but saying it's not enough. so it's certainly a for ukrainians, a major help, but obviously with russia bombing them every day it's, it's never going to be enough. and one of the major request from ukraine and president valenci

and it is closing the chapter on the kind of world order that francis fukuyama identified.nd of history at the end of the cold war, liberal democracy ascended at its peak. when we have seen over the last several years is the move toward liberal democracy and openness between nations, backsliding. we've seen it in europe with the rise of hungary's viktor orban who describes himself as a illiberal democrat, and the forces that push for brexit. of course, it's been happening right here at home, donald trump, frankly, kind of an aspiring authoritarian, who admires authoritarian,'s and try to overturn a free and fair election. of course, putin's russia, where his fascist ideology and wounded national pride has turned into a brutal assault on the battlefield. putin is not only making a completely illegitimate land grab in the attempt to build back the soviet empire, he's also committing war crimes in ukraine, threatening to use nuclear weapons. this new land were on the european continent, pending pitting a dictator against citizens of a flawed but resilient democracy. it feels l

my guest, the renowned political scientist francis fukuyama, posed a question, if humanity had arrivedacy has

unprovoked invasion has ilt joed the west into decisive action will the world order remain intact in francis fukuyama joins me then. >> china mass a rare opportunity to pla the rode of mediator. >> will china replace the u.s. as dominant world power and how will it handle putin's aggression i discuss the strategy with the former chinese ministry official. plus photo

go ahead. max will remember in late 90 eighties and early 99 is francis fukuyama, wrote his famous of the end of history essay. and i think what we're observing now is yet another end of the end of history, in the sense that, you know, but back in the day the argument was that the world kind of pound, it's ideal framework for development liberal democracy market economy. what struck me over the past week, and that brought me to think that we are now seeing the end of the end of history. that the, the 3 countries, the united states turn to, to seek to undermine russian can agree on energy markets and on the world. we're iran, saudi arabia and venezuela. i think the end there were there old great partners of the russian federation. but for years, the united states have sanctioned them and blamed this how it is in particular for human rights violations and all kind of stuff. but right now it appears that you know that the bad is called good when the worse happens, according to the u. s. logic, but i think it sends the signal to the rest of the world that there is no such thing is for the

go ahead, max will remember in late 90 eighties and early 99 is francis fukuyama road. he's famous of the end of history essay. and i think what we're observing now is yet another end of the end of history, in the sense that, you know, but back in the day the argument was that the world kind of pound, it's ideal framework for development liberal democracy market economy. what struck me over the past week, and that brought me to think that we are now seeing the end of the end of history. that the, the 3 countries, the united states turn to, to seek to undermine russian can agree on energy markets and on the world. we're iran, saudi arabia and venezuela. i think the end though, they're all great partners of the russian federation. but for years, the united states have sanctioned them and blamed this how it is in particular for human rights violations and all kind of stuff. but right now it appears that you know, if, if the bad is cold good, when the worse happens, according to the u. s. logic, but i think it sends the signal to, to the rest of the world. that there is no

go ahead, max will remember in late 90 eighties and early 99 is francis fukuyama, wrote his famous at the end of history essay. and i think what we're observing now is yet another end of the end of history, in the sense that, you know, but back in the day the argument was that the world kind of pound, it's ideal framework for development liberal democracy market economy. what struck me over the past week, and that brought me to think that we are now seeing the end of the end of history. that the, the 3 countries, the united states turn to, to seek to undermine russian going to group on energy markets and on the world. we're iran, saudi arabia and venezuela.

francis fukuyama wrote about the end of history 30 years ago when the soviet union fell apart. now he says, history is waking up. we're being reminded of what the stakes are if might makes right, becomes the rationale for any countries behavior as america did in the iraq war, and banding about popular slogans like america 1st, which really means in america that doesn't care about the rest of the world populous leaders don't like liberalism, they don't like the given take of a democracy where both political winners and losers actually believe in the rights of each other. but as graphic and disturbing, as the image of ukraine atrocities are, maybe fukuyama is right, they are igniting the spirit. and the purpose of those who believe in justice in liberalism, democracy, and sovereignty history is awake again. and that's the bottom line. ah, there is no channel that covers world views like we do. the scale of this camp is like nothing you've ever seen access to healthcare, but we want to know how do these things affect people? we revisit places, state, even when they're no internati

unprovoked invasion has ilt joed the west into decisive action will the world order remain intact in francis fukuyamaty to play the rode of mediator. >> will china replace the u.s. as dominant world power and how will it handle putin's aggression i discuss the strategy with the former chinese ministry official.

did you read francis fukuyama, but the argument about kind of the the end of history that is mentioned in the book the idea of the end of history, which was a popular idea in the you know, very early 90s this idea that sort of like i know neoliberalism had succeeded and that the the way that america functioned and sort of the way we had constructed our government in society would just be the way it would always be i don't think anyone believes that now even though you know, i i mentioned earlier how there seems to be this stasis. so it seems that that you know after all those years of culture accelerating like during the 90s whenever i wrote stories for newspapers, i was always talking about the acceleration of culture and then the internet happens, it seems like the internet is gonna be be the ultimate excellent of culture. and yet has become a deceller into some ways that. we are now kind of in this kind of molasses period where it is hard to get back on that. then that kind of marched through time. it seems like humanities supposed to experience but but with that. um, i think i will