this is unbelievable. >> frank clementi, you may not agree -- i don't know what your position is. but apple has violented no laws, and what cook pointed out, and he's used to running international operations for apple, so he know what he speaks in ireland and elsewhere, they paid every nickle off of foreign income they earned. every nickle. they didn't donnell anything, frank. that's why i don't understand this whole hearing. >> well, larry, they're just not paying much in taxes. the tax rate in ireland is 2%. the tax rate in america is 35%. as the investigation by this committee showed, if those profits, $100 billion in profits are sitting off shore in ireland, if that money was brought back to the united states, they would pay about $40 billion in taxes. >> why should they? in why should they when they don't have to, why should they when they're legally saying to the united states, to the congress, to john mccain and anybody else, you guys are so dumb, they're saying. why should we double tax these profits? why should we triple tax these profits? this is shareholder money. and t