trump had wanted him to say, but we do know, frank figliuzzi, that the president had asked his chief of staff, then chief of staff reince priebus, to have a whole bunch of officials say the president wasn't under investigation. they were actually asked about that request in congressional testimony. he wanted pompeo to say that the president was not under investigation. he wanted comey to say he wasn't under investigation. he wanted i believe coates to say he wasn't upped investigation. he wanted rogers to say he wasn't under investigation. we know all these people are witnesses in the mueller probe. how does this story fit into that fact pattern? >> well, there are a couple interesting observations here. first you need to establish intent to have an obstruction case. intent isn't some magical thing where you pry someone's head open and say, there it is, there is intent. you need a litany of evidence, preponderance of the evidence. if you're going criminal, you need evidence beyond all reasonable doubt. you start stacking up the witnesses as you said and literally all these people bec

frank figliuzzi, let me start with you. we're trying to break this down. the president is investigating a counter intelligence investigation into his campaign. is that appropriate, ethical and legal? >> there is a strong argument the president should be recusing himself of anything to do with the investigation of himself. and now today, nicolle, the presence of emmet flood, even if it was just to make introductory remarks, clearly now creates a conflict. we now -- we have intelligence heads briefing the president's defense attorney. he shouldn't even be in the room when they're discussing classified intel that may touch on this investigation with members of congress. >> frank, let me stay with you on this question. how did we get here? this meeting was president -- this didn't come about because of any concerns about the actual existence of a counter intelligence investigation into russia. it came because the president's campaign aides were in the crosshairs. that ignited the same thing in the president as it always does. can you just speak to how the just

frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant in counter intelligence. donny deutsche. this day woke up to front page stories in "the new york times," washington post, today show appearances. everyone talking about the mess, the legal mess, not just the p.r. debacle that you guys have been dealing with mano a mano with sarah huckabee sanders in the briefing room, but the rudy giuliani tour de force may have caused the president this week. >> the last 24 hours rudy giuliani said there was no daylight between him and the president. i think it's hard to see the daylight when you're under a bus. that's the way giuliani must have felt a matter of hours ago. the president effectively overruling his new lawyer, undercutting rudy giuliani who joined his team a couple weeks ago basically saying, i love the guy, buzz he doesn't know what he's talking about right now. i mean in effect, he simply doesn't have his facts right at this point. the president, of course, as you saw over the course of this day, he immediately walked out to reporters after he was going to head off to dalla

barbara mcquade and that frank figliuzzi all are my favorites, all of are msnbc analyst contributors and all are on the hook to help us figure out what's going on in that building. >>> phil rucker, let's start with you. emmet flood not a household name, but it seems to me the significance is, one, white house don mcgahn at the center of every flash point known to be under scrutiny by bob mueller, eager to lineup a replacement for himself. >> yeah, i think you nailed it, nicolle. this is a signal that the trump legal strategy is going to become much more aggressive and confrontational with mueller. there is an expectation that there is going to be less sort of cooperation and providing documents and more push back, pushing back against this idea of an interview, pushing back against the scope of the questions that were outlined earlier this week. and potentially this could end up in courts with litigation and talking to attorneys who are sort of around this whole issue. they say that flood is just the kind of person the president needs to help him navigate a much more combative, much

. >> frank figliuzzi there talking to my colleague alex witt analyzing president trump's attacks on thefbi. up the president tweeted, if the fbi or doj was infiltrating a campaign for the benefit of another campaign, that's a really big deal. joining me is danny cevallos. the president believes they were favoring one campaign. but when you look at this, are there legal grounds why the fbi might have sought to investigate this investigation? >> sure. they could have been doing anything else with russian involveme involvement. this could be a valid concern for the fbi. on the other hand, president trump's concerns are not completely out there. if there is evidence that she was from the other political party. >> supporting the house gop's request, please unmask the informant. senator warren, vice chair of the intel committee, said it would be at best, responsibility. and at worst, whpotentially illegal. at what point does this get really ugly, or is it already there? >> it is ugly. but controversial informants or human sources are an essential part of law enforcement. as a defense attorney

frank figliuzzi just described his criminal liability. is mueller looking at cohen as an unregistered foreign agent, unregistered lobbyist? these are the best case scenarios. talk about pay to play, talk about corruption. >> this is a guy who is a fixer who may have been selling influence, who may have been threatening people not to come forward. obviously he is a person and i think that is always important to remember. but, you know, i do think it is also important, you know, not to lose sight of the perspective that basically we're looking at something that actually looks more like a crime family than a traditional political story line. >> go ahead, donny. >> i guess the point is at the end of the day, he's his lawyer. and we've still got to go to the source. this comes back to donald trump, the donald trump organization. michael cohen was not getting enriched by these things. maybe there were these pay for play things. at the end of the day this is not about michael cohen. this is about donald j. trump, president of the united states.

here to talk about it, frank figliuzzi, joined by mieke eoyang, an attorney, former staffer for housentelligence and armed services. frank, there's no good comparison, so i'll put it bluntly. in normal times, how would our nation be reacting to the knowledge that we have been under and remain under constant electronic threat, especially to our ongoing and rolling elections? >> well, i think under normal circumstances, brian, as you say, we would be coming together in a bipartisan fashion to ensure the security of the midterm elections. when we hear this play out as we're hearing today, that the secretary of homeland security is either ignorant of intelligence that's been widely accepted throughout the intelligence community, or, second choice, she is corrupting the intelligence process deliberately to benefit and protect the president and/or her own job, that americans need to be concerned about what their state and local systems are doing to protect the midterm elections. that's only those two choices. she's corrupting the intelligence process or she's ignorant. both of those are bad

frank figliuzzi, chuck rosenberg, stephanie douglas, robert anderson. our thanks.our" will be back right after this. my name is cynthia haynes and i am a senior public safety specialist for pg&e. my job is to help educate our first responders on how to deal with natural gas and electric emergencies. everyday when we go to work we want everyone to work safely and come home safely. i live right here in auburn, i absolutely love this community. once i moved here i didn't want to live anywhere else. i love that people in this community are willing to come together to make a difference for other people's lives. together, we're building a better california. >>> in one way not much has changed over the course of the past year. president trump still calls the special counsel investigation a witch-hunt and repeats the now familiar defense of no collusion every chance he gets. on twitter he has labeled the investigation a witch-hunt more than two dozen times since the appointment of mueller. his first tweet claiming "this is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in

frank figliuzzi, chuck rose berng, stephanie douglas, robert anderson. our thanks.l be back right after this. >>> in one way not much has changed over the course of the past year. president trump still calls the special counsel investigation a witch hunt and repeats the now familiar defense of no collusion every chance he gets. on twitter he has labeled the investigation a witch hunt more than two dozen times. since the appointment of mueller. his first tweet claiming "this is the single greatest witch hunt of a politician in american history. ." just yesterday he gave us this, "the $10 million russian witch hunt, there is no collusion." some night the capitol police are going to respond for the use of capital letters. there is one difference in trump over the year, and it is his respect, as he puts it, for the investigation. >> well, i respect the move, but the entire thing has been a witch hunt. >> there was no collusion. and everybody, even my enemies, have said there is no collusion. >> no collusion. no obstruction. >> it is really unfair because it's like a wit

frank figliuzzi, chuck rose berng, stephanie douglas, robert anderson. our thanks.the 11th hour" will be back right after this. pack in even more adventure with audible. with the largest selection of audiobooks. audible lets you follow plot twists off the beaten track. or discover magic when you hit the open road. with the free audible app, your stories go wherever you do. and for just $14.95 a month you get a credit, good for any audiobook. if you don't like it exchange it any time. no questions asked. you can also roll your credits to the next month if you don't use them. so take audible with you this summer... on the road... on the trail... or to the beach. start a 30-day trial and your first audiobook is free. cancel anytime, and your books are yours to keep forever. no matter where you go this summer make it better with audible. text summer17 to 500500 to start listening today. >>> in one way not much has changed over the course of the past year. president trump still calls the special counsel investigation a witch hunt and repeats the now familiar defense of n

here to help us make sense, our leadoff panel, frank figliuzzi, who in past has worked for, among others, one robert mueller. john heilemann, co-author of "game change" and "double down" as well as co-host and executive producer of "the circus" on showtime. sam stein, veteran political journalist. and jill colvin, white house reporter for the associated press. frank, you're the former fed here. we read the statement by latham & watkins. we'll let that speak for itself. what do you make of tonight's development? >> brian, i think we're much closer tonight to seeing what collusion looks like. i think we're much closer to the original core of the special counsel's purpose, which is to determine the extent to which foreign powers have influenced this campaign and influenced this presidency. and i think that michael cohen is much closer to criminal charges tonight, and our president is not going to sleep well this evening because it's going to be very hard for him to assert that he did not know that cohen had this firm setup, that money was flowing from columbus nova, whose biggest client is

was in his report, but he did detail, you know, the new development that brings us back to what frank figliuzzi described yesterday as this is what collusion looks like. he showed russian oligarch in a financial arrangement with michael cohen and that seems like the kind of matter that would still be very much of interest to bob mueller and additional reporting both of your papers that bob mueller wanted to know about other people that were doing business with michael, big companies like novartis and at&t. so bob mueller is still very much following the money. >> that's right. as much as became disclosed this week about cohen's finances, there is so much we don't know. we don't know what else he was getting paid from other companies. all we know is the transactions from that set period of time and importantly we don't know what sort of favors he called in to the administration or the president himself if, in fact, he d. whid. what was he doing for at&t besides offering insights. >> the president was on twitter attacking the merger. i saw you guys press sarah huckabee sanders yesterday. did you

also joined by frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director, former u.s. attorney barbara mcquade. first your reaction to the breaking news today the president has potentially been referred to deputy attorney general rosenstein for committing a crime. >> well, nicolle, the fact of the matter is that these folks can't get their stories straight and they can't figure out what they want to do, what they should be doing is telling the truth and they should have stole the truth a long time ago. this disclosure today proves the following. michael cohen has been lying to the american people for months. david schwartz, the individual who came on national television repeatedly on many networks and stated that the president never reimbursed -- reimbursed the payment and knew nothing about it is lying to the american people. mr. giuliani as recently as a week ago has been lying to the american people about how this occurred and when it occurred because, according to the disclosure today, it occurred back in 2017. mr. trump lied to the american people when he was on b

so we want to get to emily jane fox on the mind set of michael cohen at this point but first frank figliuzzivelation poses for president? >> some of the scenarios are not looking good for the president. he has to file this disclosure. he's between a rock and a hard place. it will contravene what he said about not knowing about the payment but what it will come down to criminally is what he knew, when he knew it. what did he know about the payment structure of paying off stormy daniels and perhaps others. did he know about other illegalities, fictitious corporations, in home equity loans, russians providing money to give to stormy. so if he knew that, he's looking at being a co-conspirator with michael cohen in those underlying charges and if he learned of illegality after the fact, if he then pays off knowing something is wrong he's looking at accessory after the fact. this is almost a no-win situation for the president. >> it's willie geist. i want to ask you about a point that rudy giuliani and others around the president have made which is that bob mueller cannot indict the president of t