frank figliuzzi, you had a concise tweet. you think it is intent to obstruct. explain. >> i do, because obstruction as you all know and your viewers know, is about showing intent, mind-set, what was your purpose in conducting yourself this way. and so he's giving us essentially obstruction 101. and some may say, look, when you strip the clearance of a former cia director, you're not obstructing anything related to the collusion investigation. but in reality, the chilling effect that it has on active on-board investigators and intelligence officials is quite clear. if you cross me, if you continue in this vein, you lose your clearance. and, in fact, there are very recent reports that bruce orr, an active d.o.j. official, is being talked about in terms of stripping his clearance. this is the next step, and it's rapid, of moving from former officials you don't like to current officials you don't like. >> steve schmidt, i spoke to two former senior intelligence officials from the bush era and i asked, when the iraq war went really south, was there anyone that was l

joinling us now, associated press white house reporter jill colvin, frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant direct forecounter intelligence. chuck rosenberg is back, former u.s. attorney and former fbi senior official. with us at the table nick, "the new york times" political reporter. frank, i have got to start with you. if you are investigating campaign finance violations, it doesn't -- this feels bigger than that. is it? >> oh, it's so much bigger than that. let's not forget that we've got money laundering, bank fraud. we still have russian collusion. that's what this is all about and what it started with. and now today we have the president of the united states suggesting that maybe cooperating with prosecutors should be outlawed. this sounded -- i'm struck continually by how much some of this conversation sounds like wiretaps in an organized crime case or an episode of the sopranos where some coppo is talking about whacking somebody who is flipping and cooperating. we're getting very close to that. >> chuck, it's chilling, frank. we have to cut that and maybe replay that before this ho

let me start with you, frank figliuzzi. one former very senior intelligence official said to me, this is the closest we've come to being straight-up unamerican this this presidency. >> so, for those americans who think, hey, this is some inside the beltway politics that doesn't affect anyone without a clearance, let me tell you why you're wrong. this strikes at the heart of free speech in our society. now, there are those who are going to say john brennan is free to speak however he wants, just to do so without a clearance. but what we're experiencing here, nicolle, is the attempt to silence through punishment a man who knows something. he has the score. he was briefed on this case. he knows the russian collusion angle, and that's what trump is trying to silence. number two, this is a complete skating and skirting of all processes known on how to suspend and revoke someone's clearance. there is a process for this. you first suspend. you then show cause. then you give a hearing. and then if called upon, you revoke. so we're

frank figliuzzi is still here, of course. we never let him go. steve schmidt, go. >> well, look, you know -- >> he didn't collude except when they colluded, she's not russian except she worked for the kremlin. what is going on? it's not truth, it's truth. >> the thing here is collusion is not a crime. conspiracy against the united states is. the investigation will determine if the collusion which took place was, in fact, a conspiracy and a felony. they met with intelligence agents of the russian federation for the purposes of receiving dirt on the democratic nominee, which is an attack from the russian federation upon the sovereignty of the united states. we are a government of the people by the people, for the people, that is sustained in an electoral process that was undermined by a foreign power. and going all the way back, what is it that george washington told us as he left office? he warned the country about tribalism. he called it factionalism and he worried about foreign influence undermining a fragile democracy. that's what they did. >>

we'll just have to remain curious a little bit longer. >> frank figliuzzi, he was around on the campaign when figures like carter page were also swirling around, that rather chaotic campaign. george papadopoulos was around that campaign. it started as a counter intelligence investigation, something that you know a little bit about. how would you use rick gates in the larger investigation into potential collusion or conspiracy with the russians to impact the 2016 campaign? what questions would you have him answer in exchange for what joyce just described, potentially no or little jail time? >> so i never thought that rick gates was all about a white collar crime case against manafort. he can answer the key question, the umbrella question of what this is all about, which is to what extent did this campaign collude with an adversarial government to impact the outcome of an election. and did the president of the united states have as his campaign chairman an agent of a foreign power. that's what gates gets to the heart of. that's what he's answering. and i believe he knows the answers to tho

joining me phil rucker, harry litman former us attorney deputy assistant attorney general, frank figliuzzi former fbi assistant director for counter intelligence, betsy woodruff, politics editor for the daily beast. at the table jason johnson politics editor at the root. i have to start with you, frank. the idea now that the obstruction of justice defense lies in rudy saying, that didn't constitute obstruction of justice because a president can't obstruct justice. that was one of the original incarnations of that defense, is now that meeting never happened. it seems to me a whole lot of people including his own sitting attorney general jeff sessions testified the room was indeed cleared and he was indeed asked to leave and he left jim comey and donald trump alone in that room together. there are a whole lot of people that can corroborate a whole lot of pieces of jim comey's story. >> the first thing that jumps out at me, nicolle, as someone who has interviewed probably thousands of people and looked for deception is giuliani, in response to a question of, so the meeting never occurred? fly

i'm going to start, though, with you, frank figliuzzi. this source close to the trump legal team and still in contact with members of it past and current telling me that the president's conduct and the fact that he's thrusting this trump tower meeting the lies told about it, the actual genesis of it back into the spotlight suggests that he may have some increasing awareness either conscious or subconscious of his own legal jeopardy. >> yeah, something, something's particularly got under his skin over the last few days, nicolle. and while we'd be engaging in conjecture, i think it's more than just media coverage of this. i think there is something else going on here. he may sense or even have information that perhaps don junior is criminally exposed and looking at a target letter or some form of grand jury proceeding. it may be that he's heard something about cohen and the veracity of cohen's assertion about the trump tower meeting, and that the president knew about it. something directly has him spooked. but it's caused him to make a tact

and flugdrank figliuzzi, former assistant director for counter intelligence. frank, i want to start with you and i want to get a scene center. the president is pushing out don mcgahn who just sat for 30 hours of testimony with robert mueller. don mcgahn, who was in the room or at least aware of all of these things regarding the firing of james comey, of mike flynn, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. don mcgahn, who was with him since june 2015, and the president says, no, i'm not worried. >> yeah, sounds good except it can't be true. you don't spend 30 hours being interviewed by the special counsel's office to simply shoot the breeze. this was the inside guy. this was the guy that tried to talk the president out of doing really stupid, possibly illegal things. what this provides to mueller is intention, intent to obstruct, why was it that he wanted the a.g. to recuse himself from the investigation? what was he thinking when he fired jim comey? is he dangling pardons before people and talking about it with mcgahn? this is the damage that he can do. >> is it better to h

attorney and law professor, frank figliuzzi. on set with us white house reporter from the "the washington post" ashley parker and mike schmidt from sniemz. -- "the new york times." joyce, let me start with you and the machinations of this for a nonlawyer and someone outside this court, it seems like a bizarre, bizarre trial with a very interesting character as a judge. tell us what it means that they were on pause for so long, do we know what they were doing and what are the scenarios for what could have been going on. >> we don't know exactly what was going on, but this really isn't at all unusual for a trial. sometimes when you get to this point and even earlier on in a case, issues can come up. there can be the need for a lot of back and forth between the judge and the lawyers as they sort out legal issues. and sometimes you can see juries either sitting in a courtroom or back in the jury room wondering what the delay is about because the judge doesn't necessarily share it with them either if it's purely a legal issue about a

a former counter intelligence agent frank figliuzzi was on the show and this is what he had to say. >> back in the fbi academy in your earliest days it is grained into you above all things never embarrass the bureau. that is what pete did. yes, he was a great counter intelligence agent. the damage that he did to the incredible perception of the bureau which has to remain apolitical can't be recovered from and his effectiveness is gone. that is why he is out of the bureau today. >> let's talk about this with stephanie douglas. she worked closely with peter strzok and the fbi deputy director david bowditch, and she is senior managing editor at guidepost solutions. do you concur with what frank just said and what do you make of the players in this case and the damage to the fbi? >> well, i do think that the scandal around the sending of political texts by peter strzok to lisa page back and forth has had a very, very significant impact on the bureau. at no time can the bureau afford the look like it is biased or political in any way. while the inspector general report came out and said th

can't thank you guys enough 37 frank figliuzzi, ken vogel, annie karni, our omarosa correspondent for just tonight. thank you all so very much. have a great weekend. coming up for us, what we think might have been happening behind the scenes during that lengthy and unusual delay in the manafort trial today. and later, preparing for a tense weekend in charlottesville on of course the one-year anniversary of that fatal confrontation. and then in washington, where white supremacists and counterprotesters will square off, some of them within earshot of the white house. "the 11th hour" on a friday night just getting under way. booking a flight at the last minute doesn't have to be expensive. just go to priceline. it's the best place to book a flight a few days before my trip and still save up to 40%. just tap and go... for the best savings on flights, go to priceline. are you ready to take your then you need xfinity xfi.? a more powerful way to stay connected. it gives you super fast speeds for all your devices, provides the most wifi coverage for your home, and lets you control your netwo

you had frank figliuzzi, the former fbi counterintelligence agent, and he said, listen, the fbi's credibilityl it has. they need that credibility and what peter strzok did took that credibility away. you can't get that back. >> well, i mean first, i think you are absolutely right that it's important to realize that after an exhaustive investigation, there is no -- there is no, not a scintilla of evidence that any of pete's political opinions affected his job and in fact you can read the i.g. report who says that pete was one of the more aggressive people on the hillary clinton e-mail investigation and if he had wanted to somehow impact the election, he could have easily done it and did not do it. in terms of what is the appropriate punishment here, pete has repeatedly expressed remorse. i don't think that there's any question that he showed poor judgment in sending these tweets. we have to remember that it was in the context of a kind of bizarre, unprecedented presidential campaign and the tweets should -- i mean the texts need to be considered in that light. but pete signed a last-chance agr

. >> if there is no red line, the house doesn't turnover the way you say it will, frank figliuzzi suggestedthe air there is a contingency plan. he would send off parts of his investigations to s.d.n.y. or the attorney's office in d.c. or various other u.s. attorney's offices around the country where they could continue it and donald trump could not stop that investigation. but who knows, guys. just watch. something will happen i'm sure. hans nichols, thank you very much. jonathan lemire, thank you as well. still ahead, remembering john mccain, some of his closest friends including joe biden paid tribute and deliver an implicit rebuke of donald trump. your mornings were made for better things, than psoriatic arthritis. as you and your rheumatologist consider treatments, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once daily pill for psoriatic arthritis. taken with methotrexate or similar medicines, it can reduce joint pain... ...swelling and significantly improve physical function. xeljanz xr can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal

. >> let's bring in our panel, frank figliuzzi director for counter intelligence who work ford robert mueller, ken vogel, political reporter for the "new york times" and annie carney white house reporter for politico who has been busy today for reasons weigh get to. frank, let's begin with you. what do you make and more importantly, what will robert mueller and his team make of the president's co-counsel on the radio today? >> there's only one conclusion that i'm able to draw from this onslaught now in the last several days of just public appearances by two guys posing as lawyers trying to get their client some airtime. and that is they seem increasingly convinced that we're headed toward impeachment proceedings. why do i say that? because this has become completely an all-out preparation of the battleground for the public mind and heart in anticipation of what they seem to believe are going to be articles for impeachment. there's no other way to explain how they're taking over the airwaves and doing all of this, and the issue of supposed journalistic entities allowing partisan politi

here to help us, joyce vance law professor and msnbc contributor, frank an figliuzzi and an msnbc contributor. on set with us, reporter from "the washington post" ashley parker and mike schmidt from the "new york times." joyce, all the machinations of this i guess for a nonlawyer and someone outside this court, it seems like a bizarre trial with a very interesting character as a judge. tell us what it means that they were on pause for so long, do we know what they were doing and what are the scenarios for what could have been going on? >> we don't know exactly what was going on. but this isn't at all unusual for trial. sometimes when you get to this point or even earlier on in a case, issues can come up. there can be the need for a lot of back and forth between the judge and the lawyers as they sort out legal issues. and sometimes you can see juries either sitting in a courtroom or back in the jury room wondering what the delay is about because the judge doesn't necessarily share it with them either if it's purely a legal issue about admissible evidence. here we had a little bit of a curiosit