. >>> we want to bring in former assistant director for counter-terrorism at the fbi, frank figliuzzi a new op-ed for msnbc entitled it is time to talk about criminal charges for uvalde police leaders. and tell us why you feel it is time to go there, because i think often police officers have a very difficult time doing their jobs, they're questioned on every angle from every angle. and should be. but they balance a lot. but here things seem pretty clear when you're seeing parts of the body cam video and the video from inside of the school. but criminal charges, what do you think? >> yeah, this is tough for me to write because i carried a badge and a gun for 25 years. i'm the guy on tv that usually gives the benefit of the doubt, wants more information and explains to people it is early. we need more facts, but i have enough facts that we should call for a criminal grand jury. why do i say that? these officers had all they needed, they had it up front when were still hearing over 100 rounds being fired and still hearing the screams of children bleeding, dying, those initial responding

. >> let's bring in frank figliuzzi, former assistant for counterintelligence and msnbc national security analyst. frank, the shooter's motive unknown at this time. there is no doubt, however, that he intended to create and cause terror. >> yeah. alicia, this was planned and planned well in advance. this shooter has cased this street and buildings and selected and if indeed he was up on a roof, selected a building and tested how he could get access to the building and got access to the roof and even practicing and security video may capture that maybe not only today, but in days previous, and also there's going to be in his mind and i emphasize in his mind, and it may not make sense to us and there has to be some nexus with this community, some beef that he may have had even if it is an illusion with this town, with the parade organizers with the people he thought he was shooting at, whether there was a specific target or a group that was marching that he had a beef with, but there will be something there even if it's only apparent to him and boy, do we have evidence to work with now. we'

i just don't know. >> frank figliuzzi is back with us. he impact of hearing directly from not just some member of an extremist group who believes the election was stolen from trump, but a rider like stephen ayres who is not part of an extremist group but still got intoxicated by the big lie. >> yeah, two significant why the hearing from these witnesses were so important. from a counter radicalization standpoint. it's really important to expose people who are in a violent extremist group were thinking about it or who just feel aligned with their ideology to really here with their vote. to really hear that you could join that group and then decide it was wrong to do it. you bought the lie. you were suckered about it. so from a counter radicalization point, it's fantastic. it's important to hear from these people, because we see the call and response. the influence of an american president over violent extremism. here, you can hear one of them say mr. trump was going to allow and affirm our objectives, our goals. we wanted to be. who did they

and frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counter intelligence.committees investigation found failures, almost like on every possible imaginable level. can you walk us through those shocking findings and how it matched your reporting? i mean, i just can't get my head around the fact that there were 376 people there. >> right, and no one clearly meant out of all those officers who were there. to me, the most shocking, some of those officers knew that they were injured victims, and inside of those classrooms, trapped in those classrooms with the shooter. and still, they waited for more than an hour to go in, and confront him. and ultimately, kill him. and the report acknowledged some of the witnesses who were interviewed in the report acknowledge that the reason they did not go into that classroom was because they were waiting for better equipment, better shields. one officer asked for mirrors to look around corners, instead of just going in and ending the threat, and providing medical care to these children and teachers who were injured. >> meanwhi

frank figliuzzi is here, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence and an, in s nbc national security contributor. we are joined by nicholas gru for politico and yamiche alcindor, nbc news washington correspondent and also the moderator of "washington week" on pbs. yamiche, i'll start with you. one of the remarkable things this committee has done and one of the risky things it did was to set the expectation up here and every hearing has exceeded what people thought they were going to see. what do you expect tonight? >> what i expect tonight is new information and new details about this sort of black box which is this 187-minute period that bennie thompson, the chair of the committee has always said is at the heart of this and it's that time period that three hours of former president trump was watching this on tv as a mob of his supporters broke into the capitol and tried to bring american democracy to its knees and during a time period when he decided to do absolutely nothing and then when he sort of was doing nothing proceeded to form a mob that was directed specifically at

betsy woodruff swan, frank figliuzzi and harry litman and alemany. over the last five days it has been so fascinating. i went back and watched this section of the testimony about the only disputed aspect of cassidy hutchinson's testimony and liz cheney doubles down in the live testimony and she comes back and says are you sure? cassidy says yes. did they ever say it wasn't true? cassidy says no. liz cheney said it again in an interview with abc's jon karl that aired yesterday. what do you make of what this role has done or if it has done anything to change liz cheney as a politician? >> that's a good question. she's in the rare spot of being in a position where hughing to her principles on a very basic matter is viewed conventionally as a political death knell and the limited polling that we have about the republican primary in wyoming does not contain any good news for cheney. there's no question about that, but she distinguishes herself from a host of other anti-trump republicans by taking this bet that standing on the principles she's committed to

and we're also joined by frank figliuzzi. also joining us former senator and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill. frank figliuzzi, i want to start with you on this bombshell. do we have you, frank? i saw frank. claire, liz cheney in what has s becoming i think we can call it on brand for her revealing some really stunning testimony that donald trump himself engaged in what could only be described as witness tampering. >> yeah, you know, i'm struck right at this moment, nicolle with the stark realization, and that is everything we've heard in these committee hearings stands for the proposition that so far our rule of law has failed because this man is continuing to use a seditious lies to try to hold on to power in this country, is illegally pressuring witnesses to not give testimony to one of the branches of government that has a sacred obligation to protect the constitution. i mean, if you think about it, we have candidates all over the country proudly campaigning on this seditious lie. it is time. i feel very strongly

attorney, joyce vance, and former assistant fbi director, frank figliuzzi and barbara mcquade.us, now nbc news washington correspondent and pbs "washington week" moderator, yamiche alcindor. so, yamiche, how significant is the fact that dhs has now launched a criminal probe into the secret service text situation? >> it's very significant when we think about the reporting that our great colleague, julia ainsley has been doing. this went from being something like, maybe this was an oversight, maybe this was a sort of mishap to maybe this could be nefarious. so obviously, it's a big question, a key question now, sort of what happened with these text messages, but when you pull back, andrea, isn't it remarkable? i know you've been covering national security issues for so long, isn't it remarkable that the secret service can't find these text messages, on what really is one of the days when security and safety was at the forefront of our nation's mind, because the u.s. capitol had been broken into and people were very, very worried and scared for their lives. people died at the capi

and we're also joined by frank figliuzzi.ining us former senator and msnbc political analyst claire mccaskill. frank figliuzzi, i want to start with you on this bombshell. do we have you, frank? i saw frank. claire, liz cheney in what has s becoming i think we can call it on brand for her revealing some really stunning testimony that donald trump himself engaged in what could only be described as witness tampering. >> yeah, you know, i'm struck right at this moment, nicolle with the stark realization, and that is everything we've heard in these committee hearings stands for the proposition that so far our rule of law has

also joining us, frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence, and ben rhodesational security advisor for president obama, all msnbc contributors. frank, it was hard for me to -- it's hard to imagine listening to these hearings and this testimony of trump's enthusiasm for the violence, his knowledge of not just his supporters being armed but exactly what they were armed with, and to imagine these officers who were the frontline victims of that violence sitting through all that. >> you know, this theme of contrition is interesting. i'm told that people in recovery, recovery from addiction and who are in 12-step programs, are often counseled to make amends, apologize directly to the people they've harmed or damaged. and so, to the extent that we have a large part of our population that was addicted to disinformation and to the extent that our whole nation needs to go through some form of recovery, then it's healthy for people to apologize, if it's truly genuine, but i know, as you said, it's worth noting that that gentleman's apology there in the hearing to the o

joining me now frank figliuzzi, retired fbi assistant director and msnbc national security analyst.ture of the individual, robert crimo iii. this is of the utmost urgency. they described him as you should assume he's armed and dangerous. finding this individual right now, that seems the foremost goal for everyone involved. >> no question that identifying the suspect or i should say again carefully the person of interest here, we need to emphasize that, is a game changer for law enforcement. why is that? well, first of course you're going to be able to speak with his family members. you're going members to voluntarily provide dna samples. you match that dna sample to the weapon found or other items found at the scene on that roof. and now you move from person of interest to wanted for murder because that will be conclusive forensic proof that that is your guy. so that will happen rapidly. the fbi's program is called rapid dna because it comes in under two hours, the ability to match a dna sample to a known sample. fingerprints can be matched from inside his residence, now that we kno

enough frank figliuzzi chuck rosenberg thanks for joining us tonight. i appreciate.t coming up next, i want to continue this conversation about social media and take a bow and about how lies and conspiracies conspiracies helped fuel the capitol riot and still do today. how do people become racket radicalized when the 11th hour continues. ke radicalized when the 11th hour continues. had planned carefully for our retirement. but we quickly realized we needed a way to supplement our income. if you have $100,000 or more of life insurance, you may qualify to out if your policy qualifies. or call the number on your screen. coventry direct, redefining insurance. >> can you tell us about your life before january 6th? >> yeah. basically, nothing but a family man and a working man. i worked at a company, a cabinet company in northeast ohio, for going on 20 years. other than that, it was my family, camping, my basketball, playing games with my son. >> stephen ayers told the committee that he lived a pretty normal life before january 6th, but then, he'd been radicalized on socia

also joining us, barbara mcquade, and frank figliuzzi, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligenceureau" podcast, all msnbc contributors. frank, i start with you, because as i read this story, i thought of another parallel government, shadow government, off-book government, whatever you want to call it, that trump set up to dirty up joe biden. he was impeached the first time and that was having rudy giuliani and his political appointees try to exploit zelenskyy for dirt on the biden family. this is how he functioned as president. >> yep, shadow government, not deep state. that's what we learn every single week, and right now, i've got to erase my white board, i've got to write smaller, because the list of lawyers that kept adding themselves to this attempt to overthrow an election gets longer and longer, and i have to write smaller and smaller because the list is just continuing to grow. this guy, look, you know, just to put this guy in perspective, you've already done it. not only is he currently representing the my pillow guy, but he claimed, of course, that vice president harris

enough frank figliuzzi chuck rosenberg thanks for joining us tonight. i appreciate. i want to continue this conversation about social media and take a bow and about how lies and conspiracies conspiracies helped fuel the capitol riot and still do today. how do people become racket radicalized when the 11th hour continues. radicalized when the and putting the brakes on fried foods. jardiance is a once-daily pill that...not only lowers a1c, it goes beyond to reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults with type 2 diabetes and known heart disease. and jardiance may help you lose some weight. jardiance may cause serious side effects including ketoacidosis that may be fatal, dehydration that can lead to sudden worsening of kidney function and genital yeast or urinary tract infections. continues. re, life-threatening bacterial infection in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking jardiance and call your doctor right away if you have symptoms of this infection, ketoacidosis or an allergic reaction, and don't take it if you're on dialysis. taking jardiance wit

msnbc national analyst, frank figliuzzi, former assistant director for counter intelligence of the fbi. it's good to see you both. i'm minister with you, the former oath keeper, is going to serve as a witness. your sense of the significance of jason van tatenhove testimony? >> frank? >> thanks, alicia. wasn't sure about who that was for. so look, this is good news. and we should be looking for more news of the degree to which oath keepers may be cooperating. or may have already cooperated with the general row six committee. it also may be an indication to the degree of which they may be cooperating with the doj. all, good public needs some background on who oath keepers are and i think this witness will help provide that. this is a group we are talking about that actually started right after our first black president was elected. that was an impetus for them to plant the flag and pretend that they were about upcoming and of. but, really there about much more than that. i'm going to be looking for three things really quickly for tuesday's hearing on the domestic extremist groups and jan

heard often, it was a dereliction of duty, i don't we're not going to break, i'm gonna bring in frank figliuzzi former chairman of the rnc, and former lieutenant governor of maryland. frank, if decades of law enforcement experience. because what we heard tonight a dereliction of duty? >> it was in our understanding of this, certainly. let's be technical here, explain that that phrase, dereliction of duty applies to military service, and their code of criminal justice, not to civilian. even though donald trump is the commander of chief, or was the commander-in-chief. that military code would not apply to him. in the concept that he chose to not act, it deliberate decision to not take action, that is the problem for him. because it's one more piece, an important piece in the puzzle of the doj is looking at. what's the puzzle? what was going on terms of intent, mindset inside donald trump's brain, we got more of that today because leaders choose not to acts. so when you put all his actions, calling georgia, asking for one more vote. disregarding all of his experts telling him there's no fraud here