[laughter] >> the one immediately before brennan was frank murphy. and there was a gap of a few years which is an interesting part of the story. cardinal spelman came to see president eisenhower on a couple of different occasions and said, hey, remember the catholic seat after frank murphy had been off the court for a few years, hey, remember the catholic seat? would be nice if you got us another one sometime, mr. president. and when eisenhower heard that sherman minton was retiring and that he was going to have this vacancy to fill, one of the first things he said was, you know, remember the visit from cardinal spelman, let's look for a catholic. >> well, you mentioned -- was it souter who took his spot? >> souter, yes. >> oh, souter. i remembered hearing some folks say that there were statements by eisenhower later that the biggest mistakes he ever made were warren and brennan. was there any -- did he ever -- >> the answer is yes and no. there's substantial evidence that eisenhower thought that. >> uh-huh. >> there is no evidence that he actually e