on the financial problems in struggling cities and particularly the pension issues, frank shafroth from george mason university. you have been involved in the municipal bankruptcy law. you looked at the pension question. help us to understand how big a deal is this for other cities looking at the detroit situation now? >> it's a very big deal for those cities like michigan that are in michigan or california, broken. >> so to clarify that, part of what the judge said yesterday was, a, yes, you can proceed with bankruptcy. >> yes. >> but part of that is the pensions for city workers are no longer in his mind protected? >> the federal law overcomes the state constitution. >> yes. >> will overcome. so that means that's a negotiation that we are talking about in detroit? >> that's correct. >> effective with that decision yesterday, they are now beginning the next round, the emergency manager will have to negotiate with all of the creditors, 100-plus creditors including the unions to come up with something that he can come back and say, here is a fair and equitable way to get the city's budge