. >> charlie: this is a quote, fred caigen said about you and general petraeus in 2008 after you just returned from iraq, he said great commanders often come in pairs, david petraeus and raymond odierno can now be added to the list. he said the subordinate in every successful campaign pair has played a key role in designing and implementing the campaign plan and history does not always appreciate such contributions. in your words, why did the surge work? all of us understand that the awakening was taking place and you therefore put in additional american troops, but it has to be much more complicated than that. >> i would argue it's a bit opposite. the awakening happened when they realized we were putting more troops in. >> charlie: ah. but they were very small. so what had happened is we had gone through a time of almost civil war between the sunn sunnd shia. but when the americans came at greater numbers, we covered more areas and the people felt more comfortable coming forward because they were tied of the violence. al quaida had worn out its welcome on the sunni side but didn't wa