i want her name to become one of those sort of household names, like a fred douglass, harriet tubman because she runs away. my tighting "never caught" my first which is of the tile and people the publishers hated it. i said, gives away the story, erica. and i said, yeah, but so does "12 years a slave." we understand, right? it was 12 years, going tend to at some opinion. with "never caught" this ahistory of how a woman who was a fugitive, never found freedom. she was never free. she simply was never caught. and i think it's a big distinction and one that i wanted to make, especially as i was trying to kind of dismantle what we think about slavery in the south and the north at this moment where the nation is new, and i think that's one of the other things i was really trying to do with this book was to allow us to see what the early days of this new country looked like through the eyes of the enslaved. >> you can watch this and other programs online at booktv.org. >> i get to take your speech to see if you really know what is going on. good afternoon. welcome to the heritage foundatio