fred guttenberg and joe walsh. i'm still a tea party conservative. to the side this year. to tell the country if you want to defend democracy, donald trump cannot win. that's one big, important point. but the second thing i'd say is this. i do come from the world of maga. i helped to enflame these people year after year. they consider me publicly to be a traitor. and when i engage with them publicly, the conversation goes nowhere. but i engage with them every day and when i engage with them privately, privately, i'm able to help move some of them. and even though we want trump, we desperately need trump to lose this year, after the election, this country's got to heal. and we're not going to heal if all of them are off the planet. so i will never stop reaching out to them privately. >> fred, your thoughts on this. >> yes. you know, i always had a lesson for my kids. and i would be a hypocrite if i didn't do what i taught them, which is this. it's always easy to engage with people who you agree with but it's always necessary and important to engage wit