mimosas of africa, frederick douglass, has passed away. the question is it will be the new leader? washington has emerged. he has emerged as the new joshua. here first to washington as this joshua man. but as it turns out, washington is not the militant leader the joshua was. militant leader. and du bois is presenting himself as the more opprobrious successor, the more appropriate joshua. >> host: well, that said, what was the relationship from john mearsheimer and the larger white community. >> guest: well, very much involved, one of the founding members of the afc t. one can talk about the larger communities in a number of different ways. one can talk about him again with respect to the n.a.a.c.p., african-americans. activism. the point that i try to stress is what's du bois was about intellectually. a judge to open up the space for thinking, not only about the engagement of du bois throughout appropriations, contemporary american bankers, but to think, too, about, for example, but his time in germany. so, for example, not only interesting because he was a student. also interesti