next on free speech nation, a free speech row has broken out at durham university as its oldest student society was banned from taking part in the freshers fair. a member of the free speech unionto free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. earlier this week, the durham union society, known as the society, was blocked from taking part in the university of durham's freshers fair. the society, which was founded in 1842 and includes more than 3000 current and former students, has been banned from advertising at the fair because of an alleged failure to meet the requirements set out by the student union. well, to speak about this now, i've got stephen o'grady, the legal officer for the free speech union . welcome to the speech union. welcome to the show. >> thanks very much for having me on. so, stephen, this sounds a bit crazy. >> a debating society banned. i mean, isn't that kind of self—defeating? it is rather. >> and it's one of these sort of ironies. on the surface, it might just look like a student politics spat, but it really goes , goes a lot deeper than that. >> well, what's their justification for banning their society? >> is down to their

i'm also closely aligned with the free speech union, one of the free speech union, one of the most importantntry that protects people's free speech and their right to free expression. what we're seeing in the universities, what we're seeing on campus. i've been in universities for 20 years, right. i helped bring forward the higher education free speech act, which labour is now doing everything it can to bin. what we have is a free speech crisis on campus. the evidence is overwhelming. it's not just the cases of kathleen stock getting chased out of sussex university by pro—trans activists. it's not just nigel biggar , the just nigel biggar, the philosopher and historian that got almost cancelled because he held different views on britain's empire. it's not just noah carl at cambridge who got chased out of the university for, you know, researching unfashionable areas. what we have is a systemic crisis in the universities where if you are conservative or you are gender critical or you say , actually, critical or you say, actually, on balance, i think britain's history is not just full of slaver

there's a group in the uk called free speech union which has been invaluable he has been inundated peopleaving their deeply held beliefs. those are the peopled who are really affected by cancel culture. jk rolling is uncomfortable. she's far too rich, party powerful. that isn't to say she has not been' horribly courageous. she did not the say the step it would've been easier life for her not too. because as a result she receives daily threats of murder, threats of violence because remember the people who position themselves onmo being on the right side of history can be the most downright cruel individuals in the world but youto know that those of the most tyrannical people the most wrote most cruel and the inquisition strapping people to iraq thought they were doing so on the side of the angels. so i have nothing but admiration for jk rowling. don'tst have the resources to do the same. the scottish government new hate speech law this is the law that could criminalize people progress to actual law? works in actual lawaw. it came in on april the first, april fools' day. with thought as a j

the free speech union claims that it's because the debating society isn't left wing enough . society enough. the organisers of freshers week, durham student union, say it's because they haven't met dei criteria. what does that mean? well, i think it's that they're agreeing. they seem to be falling out, but they both seem to be saying they're not left wing enough. so is that what it is, nick? it can't be that, can it? >> well, it's more nuanced. i mean, they wanted them to improve their track record or show that they were making progress. on what on on equality, diversity and inclusion. but of course, that inclusion. but of course, that in itself is an ideological statement. yeah. they claim here that toby young is making a free speech union. is that actually you could see from their website that they just didn't like this, this society, they sort of were mocking them and calling them a tuxedo clad provocateurs. and this because they invite right wing people onto campus. that's what it seems like . but my claim what it seems like. but my claim is that even on their own premise, that t

is just jealous of the historic durham union, with its wonderful debating chamber and its history ? debating chamber and its history? it's not really free speechjust the green eyed monster. >> i don't think that's i don't think that's very convincing because this is going on everywhere. so as we already know, this has happened at oxford union as well, and numerous debate societies and indeed new societies that try to set up, which are much less formal and old fashioned, if you like, and stuffy are just trying to create spaces for students to meet on campus and to have open conversations. and they too are greeted with barriers put in place by student unions so they might be, you know, just put through kind of hoops that other societies wouldn't be put through or denied affiliation to the student union. so there's all kinds of ways in which a more diverse range of views are denied a platform or a space in university life. >> but isn't it strange to get excluded on the basis of inclusivity, just the use of language is so peculiar. >> well, in a way it is, yes, but then the inclusion terms are set by the bureaucrats or the ideologues. so that's wh

there's a group in the uk called the free speech union set up by toby, which has been invaluable because. he has been inundated with people who've lost their jobs, be disciplined at work for stating their sincerely held beliefs. beliefs. those are the people who are really affected by cancel culture. j.k. rowling is in the realm of the young council. she's far too rich, is far too powerful. but that is not to say that she hasn't been incredibly courageous. i mean, she didn't have to say this stuff. it would have been an easier life for her not to because as a result, she receives daily rape threats. threats, murder, threats of violence. because remember, the people who position themselves as being on the right side of history can be some of the most ferocious and vicious and downright cruel individuals in the world. and you know that from history, some of the most tyrannical people, the people who were the most cruel, the people who in the inquisition strapping people to the rack thought they were doing so. so they were on the side of the angels. often those two things glue. so you know,

let's get the analysis now of legal officer at the free speech union , stephen the free speech union,s a debate that had to be cancelled. all sorts of roles between the student union and the union society. >> absolutely, yes. yes. on the surface of it, this might seem a sort of , you know, silly spat sort of, you know, silly spat student politics, that sort of thing . but it actually is a long thing. but it actually is a long running dispute between the durham union society and the student union. there it goes back several years and it's, it's bigger just than durham it's biggerjust than durham even. it's sort of pervasive rot that exists in our universities, which has been exacerbated by the decision of the secretary of state for education, bridget phillipson, to stop the commencement of the higher education freedom of speech act, which would have rarely been in place to deal with these sorts of things if it weren't for her. this dispute goes back. it was a, revelations in the durham student newspaper several years ago in which the durham union was accused of being colonial apologist

>> we're going to be talking about freedom of speech with the durham union and ancient long standing free allowed to attend the freshers fairs because it won't sign up to an equality, diversity and inclusion approach. and the student union has stopped it going. and of course, the conservatives had introduced a law that would have made universities be bastions of free speech. the labour party tried to undermine it as soon as they got in. the labour party hates free speech because free speech always exposes the follies of socialism . so that's going to be socialism. so that's going to be our opening and then we're very lucky. we've got an interview with liz hatton, who is the young lady who took photographs of the prince and princess of wales at the investiture yesterday, who has cancer and is being beautiful, photographed, amazingly brave. and so i'm going to be talking to her as well. >> and i thought those photographs were so wonderful. of course, like kate has been through so much of her own health issues, and to be embracing liz like that, i mean , embracing liz like that, i mean, it r

there's a group in the uk called the free speech union set up by toby, which has been invaluable because. he has been inundated with people who've lost their jobs, be disciplined at work for stating their sincerely held beliefs. beliefs. those are the people who are really affected by cancel culture. j.k. rowling is in the realm of the young council. she's far too rich, is far too powerful. but that is not to say that she hasn't been incredibly courageous. i mean, she didn't have to say this stuff. it would have been an easier life for her not to because as a result, she receives daily rape threats. threats, murder, threats of violence. because remember, the people who position themselves as being on the right side of history can be some of the most ferocious and vicious and downright cruel individuals in the world. and you know that from history, some of the most tyrannical people, the people who were the most cruel, the people who in the inquisition strapping people to the rack thought they were doing so. so they were on the side of the angels. often those two things glue. so you know,

efforts, again, both the united states and the in the european union to try to police that a little bit. given a lot of us so called free speech declarations. of course, it's very much his idea of a free speech and free expression. and so twitter, whatever we're calling in these days, and selection really is under a microscope for, for people who are interested in this and concerned about these, these issues. we saw that there's a i thought of twitters or x is had to be sort of re tool a bit when secretaries of state across the united states. and these are the people that are in charge of elections in the us, came out and criticized the information to missing information that this i chat plot was giving users on x, not directing users to official and trustworthy information about things like balance initiatives. and when people have to register to vote, and these kinds of rules to make sure people can both have access to actions. so x is under a lot of scrutiny, but of course it is by no means alone. facebook, youtube, all of these platforms. so it's a big open question, the extent to which they are policing, their platforms a

his union paymasters, he is undermining freedom of speech in our universities, he is trashing our border security and instead of keeping us safe, he want to police smoking in beer gardens. he is freeingon those on the front line. applause. because, friends... i will always stand up for those who put their lives on the line to keep us safe. because we are the conservative party, the party of security, the party of law and order. keir starmer is half right when he says that things will get worse before they get better. they will certainly get worse, i can promise you that. we will have a lot of cleaning up to do when we are back in five years' time and i hope you are ready. because keir starmer�*s bleak outlook is hurting our country already, his tax hikes or an attack on business, slowing growth and hurting families. his tax on education will cost everyone. either in higher bills or in larger class sizes. they are even after three—year—olds at nurseries, and i tell you, labour's new tax is quite literally a dummy tax. so when keir starmer talks about service, you will understand that i do not really believe him. that is not what we mean by conference —— service, is it? when i think a

union paymasters. he's undermining freedom of speech in our universities. he's trashing our universities. he's trashing our border security instead of keeping us safe. he wants to police smoking in beer gardens. he's freeingw i know what it's like when a labour government doesn't have your back. the last labour government left our troops without body armour in iraq and without body armour in iraq and without helicopters in afghanistan. as your prime minister i will never abandon those on the frontline . those on the frontline. because, friends , i will always because, friends, i will always stand up for those who put their lives on the line to keep us safe because we are the conservative party, the party of security, the party of law and order. now starmer is half right when he says that things will get worse before they get better. they will certainly get worse. i can promise you that. we're going to have a lot of cleaning up to do when we're back in five years time. i hope you're ready, because starmer's bleak outlook is already hurting our country. his tax hikes are an attack on business, slowing growth and hurting families. his tax on education will cost everyone, either in higher bills or in larger c

like an academic branch of toby young's free speech union.ert skidelsky , who the son of robert skidelsky, who i do know a bit about, who's a very senior academic and biographer of john maynard keynes, and i did a little bit of reading about him. he sounds like a very smart guy, a philosopher, and an interesting figure to be supporting academic freedom. but yeah, a little bit of freedom reading up there. so anyway, i think we wish him well. on the other hand, it sounds like he's been offered a pretty cushy job in australia and he's just taking paid leave. yeah. so sweet. yeah . no, i yeah. so sweet. yeah. no, i think that's probably a stronger economy all round. his win win win. >> but australia's very woke country . begum. so has it. country. begum. so has it. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> you know you've got the whole tickle case and. yes. >> but it's also got a resistance against that in australia, which is typical as well. the stronger the attitude the more the resistance to it as well. >> so and just the, the hygienic effect of the sun. yeah . dn